[UNIV] Canadian Graphics - Development ...

[ChillCore]

Basically this means that if my name were Carlson Alfons I am screwed because someone used 6 out of 65000 possible IDs starting with CA.

Maybe not ... What about "ca" [6361], "cA" [6341] or "Ca" [4361] ?

OK that is three more 'CA' initials.
If this were the nations game I'd be needing to pull an APDAF-card right now?

What I really meant but not communicated clearly enough is that the real Carlson Alfons might not know that his NewGRF might be disabled without him knowing why, that is if he used CA as initials and his NewGRF ends up in the same game as the new CanSet.
True, as both conditions must be met the chances of this scenario actualy happening are reduced.
Then again CanSet is pretty popular and for good reason.

Is there any way to prevent this kind of situation, like a list of Already used ID's that includes the blocked ones if a certain NewGRF is used?

Now chaps, I'm sure you don't need reminding, but don't let this one get out of hand please!

Just friendly chatting sir.
Will remain that way too for as far as I am concerned.

@ ChillCore - Maybe we can get this moved into one of Dave's threads ...

Now there is an idea.


Edit:
Horrible spelling and fixed quote.

[Yousei]

Seems like one of my questions made this thread derail a bit.
Just made a post in OGFX Airport thread about the ID conflict. I hope you devs can communicate the rest without mediation.

The industries included in CanRail are TTD 'original' made available in the other climate (i.e. food in temperate, iron ore in arctic etc). In general, Canadian graphic files are not compatible with OpenGfx terrain. You may want to try ECS or FIRS instead.

I was only looking for ground aware original industry grfs not a complete industry change.

I believe there is one here. It is fairly old, I don't know whether it still works. The order of GRFs will be important : CanRoads, TBRS, CanRail.

Tried that one. It only replaces road bridges surface. Still shows Maglev on narrow gauge bridges.

CanRail does not have running sounds, but the standard start and tunnel entering (for steam) sounds are there.

Any chance of adding running sounds?

[Transportman]

I was only looking for ground aware original industry grfs not a complete industry change.

You might want to take a look at OpenGFX+ Industries for that.

[wallyweb]

I believe there is one here. It is fairly old, I don't know whether it still works. The order of GRFs will be important : CanRoads, TBRS, CanRail.

Tried that one. It only replaces road bridges surface. Still shows Maglev on narrow gauge bridges.

I saw that as well, but the NG trains still crossed the bridge. This might be fixable with a simple graphic replacement.

[Yousei]

I believe there is one here. It is fairly old, I don't know whether it still works. The order of GRFs will be important : CanRoads, TBRS, CanRail.

Tried that one. It only replaces road bridges surface. Still shows Maglev on narrow gauge bridges.

I saw that as well, but the NG trains still crossed the bridge. This might be fixable with a simple graphic replacement.

Now we're back to my original request.
Can someone make a version of TBRS that has NARoads AND narrow gauge and post it in this and the TBRS thread like someone did for Japanese Set?

[YNM]

Isn't the NG rails in this set is just a maglev replacement ? I think this have something to be done with this specific railtype, or the implementation in CanRail... other sets whose changes maglev appearance also suffer from this issue (ex. SMITS, through it worked better with TBRS)

[OzTrans]

Is there any way to prevent this kind of situation, like a list of Already used ID's that includes the blocked ones if a certain NewGRF is used?

Currently, I know of only two. One is OpenGFX_Airports-0.4.1, which is imcompatible with Canadian v1.6+ graphic files.

The other one is a pointless GRF, which should not be of concern to anyone.

I have now an updated version of OpenGFX_Airports-0.4.1 available, that IS compatible with Canadian graphic files. It is called "Canadian (OG) Airports v0.4.2". Anyone wishing to have a copy, please PM me. At the moment, it is not going to be uploaded to the Content Downloader, or posted in any forum., but we will find a place.

I was only looking for ground aware original industry grfs not a complete industry change.

I'm not aware of any other industry graphics that is terrain aware.

Tried that one. It only replaces road bridges surface. Still shows Maglev on narrow gauge bridges.

Can someone make a version of TBRS that has NARoads AND narrow gauge and post it in this and the TBRS thread like someone did for Japanese Set?

No need for that, there may be something wrong elsewhere. Can you provide me with the list of activated GRFs ?

Any chance of adding running sounds?

Not in the v1.x series. It would be too much work. For the Canadian Theme Pack (v2.x series) it could be considered, but I would need those sounds first.

[Yousei]

I was only looking for ground aware original industry grfs not a complete industry change.

You might want to take a look at OpenGFX+ Industries for that.

Just tested OGFX Industries with CanRail 1.6.

• In temperate it works fine except having two possible destinations for steel.
• In arctic CanRail is suddenly unable to unable to transport Wheat.

"enable support for other industry sets" doesn't help at all.

• Disabled(default): no wheat refitable wagon
• Enabled: still no wheat refitable wagon and CanRails own Steel/Copper industry now is gone as well.

I think this switch should simply allow all possible refits, effectively removing climate checks.

I tried every combination of switch and load order, the results are always the above.

PS: Using an old savegame with CanRails 1.2 I found out old wheat wagons still work and can be cloned.

PPS: using OGFX Industries also makes ISR mining stations copper and iron ore aware.

[Yousei]

Is there any way to prevent this kind of situation, like a list of Already used ID's that includes the blocked ones if a certain NewGRF is used?

Currently, I know of only two. One is OpenGFX_Airports-0.4.1, which is imcompatible with Canadian v1.6+ graphic files.

The other one is a pointless GRF, which should not be of concern to anyone.

I have now an updated version of OpenGFX_Airports-0.4.1 available, that IS compatible with Canadian graphic files. It is called "Canadian (OG) Airports v0.4.2". Anyone wishing to have a copy, please PM me. At the moment, it is not going to be uploaded to the Content Downloader, or posted in any forum., but we will find a place.

This makes me really happy. Snow aware airports in changing seasons.

Tried that one. It only replaces road bridges surface. Still shows Maglev on narrow gauge bridges.

Can someone make a version of TBRS that has NARoads AND narrow gauge and post it in this and the TBRS thread like someone did for Japanese Set?

No need for that, there may be something wrong elsewhere. Can you provide me with the list of activated GRFs ?

Load order:

Code: Select all

us_town_names-1.0\us_towns.grf = 
opengfx_industries-0.3.4\ogfx-industries.grf = 16 0 3 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
total_bridge_renewal_set_arrs-1.0.0\total_bridges.grf = 
canadian_city_buildings-1.6.0\cancity.grf = 128 0 0 100
"canadian (og) airports v0.4.2\canairport.grf" = 1 9
av8_aviators_aircraft_set-2.21\pb_av8w.grf = 0 0 0 0 0 1
fish_ship_set-0.9.2\fish.grf = 
egrvts2-175\egrvts2.grf = 0 63 2 0
north_american_road_vehicle_set-0.1.2\narvs.grf = 
canadian_international_roads-1.6.0\canroads.grf = 0 1 0 1 1 9
generic_buffers.0.1\buffers.grf = 
combined_american_signal_set.1.1\ussigzw.grf = 
canadian_bk_tunnels-1.6.0\bktunnel.grf = 1 1 3 0
canadian_stations-1.6.0\canstn.grf = 2 128 0 0
industrial_stations_renewal-0.8.2\indstatr.grf = 0 0 0
canadian_trains__railways-1.6.0\canrail.grf = 128 15 0

TBRS 1.2 modified for ARRS: (the one linked above)


TBRS seems to use it's own road/rail graphics so it needs to be modded for every road or rail type.
Wallyweb has already offered me to get permission for a CanadianSet version of TBRS.
Thanks Wally.

Any chance of adding running sounds?

Not in the v1.x series. It would be too much work. For the Canadian Theme Pack (v2.x series) it could be considered, but I would need those sounds first.

I'll be sure to get the 2.x series then as well.

[OzTrans]

Just tested OGFX Industries with CanRail 1.6.

• In temperate it works fine except having two possible destinations for steel.
• In arctic CanRail is suddenly unable to transport Wheat.

...

The problem is with OGFX Industries; wheat seems to have been incorrectly defined.

CanRail v1.6 transports cargo label "WHEA", in early years in the box car, later on in the Covered Hopper. This works fine with OGFX Industries disabled.

... [TBRS with NG rail bridges] ...

Haven't found any solution yet, but we'll try to come up with a way to make those TBRS bridges work.

[juzza1]

Started an early arctic climate game, from 1910, with CanRail (1.6.0) and Firs (1.2.0) and there seems to be no wagon available for bauxite, clay, grain and iron ore.

[OzTrans]

Started an early arctic climate game, from 1910, with CanRail (1.6.0) and Firs (1.2.0) and there seems to be no wagon available for bauxite, clay, grain and iron ore.

I can confirm that; shall be fixed ...

[orudge]

OGFX+Airports 43415000

434150 = 'CAP'. This topic suggests it was originally known as "Climate dependant airports". As such, CAP does not seem to be an unreasonable identifier for it to have used.

Additionally, while it may be a convention for an author's initials to be used, that doesn't mean any one person has "exclusive rights" over that 'range' of GRFIDs. What, as people have suggested, if there are multiple people with those initials? In the case of the 'CA' prefix, I presume that's short for "Canadian" and as such isn't even a person's initial.

While obviously I have no power to force anybody to do anything, I would strongly suggest that anybody trying to disable other NewGRFs should use a known list of GRFIDs, rather than potentially disabling 65,000+ unknown NewGRFs.

I'm sure this can be resolved amicably, but asking other projects to change their perfectly valid GRFIDs doesn't seem quite right.

[michael blunck]

I would strongly suggest that anybody trying to disable other NewGRFs [..]

None of the serious newGRF developers will ever disable foreign newGRFs, or has done so in the past.

The accepted de-facto standard is to disable the (own) newGRF in question, in case of incompatibilities.

regards
Michael

[chuggles]

Re: running sounds, might you be able to come to an arrangement with pikka to use the running sounds from the UK and US trainsets?

I was also wondering if any late-game chrome/glass type buildings were planned for canadian cities - not that the set needs it, and it is exquisite as it currently stands, but I just wondered if you were thinking about that.

[FLHerne]

I would strongly suggest that anybody trying to disable other NewGRFs [..]

None of the serious newGRF developers will ever disable foreign newGRFs, or has done so in the past.

The accepted de-facto standard is to disable the (own) newGRF in question, in case of incompatibilities.

regards
Michael

I'd say that blindly blocking several dozen thousand IDs - in a group fairly likely to be used by someone at some point under the '[initials]-[grfname]' guidelines - just because 0.02% of those were used by his own grfs in the past, is rather closer to the former. It might not be targeted at any particular foreign grf, but it will just affect grfs at random - even if their authors have made sure that particular ID isn't used by anything - which is if anything worse.

OzTrans: Thanks for the Bananas listing though - the ability to use your fantastic-looking grfs on public servers is awesome!

[michael blunck]

I'd say that blindly blocking several dozen thousand IDs [...]

He doesn´t. Please read back what he wrote. Nobody is "blocking" or "disabling" newGRFs.

regards
Michael

[FLHerne]

I'd say that blindly blocking several dozen thousand IDs [...]

He doesn´t. Please read back what he wrote. Nobody is "blocking" or "disabling" newGRFs.

regards
Michael

Obviously not in the overall "you can't use this grf anywhere" sense - because there's no way to do that - but refusing to function with random other grfs blocks those who enjoy using CanSet from using those (or forces them to stop using CanSet of course, which seems a little counterproductive). Not to mention the spurious bug reports to the developers just because they happen to use an ID that's been arbitrarily 'claimed' (but not used, or proposed to be used in the future) by someone else.

I know what I meant in the previous post, on rereading it I certainly didn't make it clear enough. Sorry. But I still maintain that interfering with an entire range of IDs, 0.02% of which there's any intention of actually making use of, is absurd.