32bit Base Set Conversion Project Development Thread

[Ben_Robbins_]

Well to the initial question and assuming an agreement that there is 'no co-ordinated effort' to organise. I'd say it doesn't yet matter. It's hard to wrap a present before you have a present to wrap. The groups of sprites that have been done are easy to find on the wiki and through the links to and on jupix's site. The difficult thing seems to be the understanding that this is all very much a work in progress, and because of that, don't expect 1 quick and fully complete graphics package available at a click.

[32Bpp-Pack]

not complete but available in two clicks and a small waiting time:
http://www.tt-forums.net/./viewtopic.php?f=36&t=46682

[Wasila]

Ben - I'm not saying that we can magically find a solution. I'm suggesting a concentrated effort to just getting it done, instead of individual artists tweaking their graphics to look perfect. This has all been brought up by others (not just me), and with the amount of sprites to do then I'm sure a OpenGFX style effort would be helpful.

[Ben_Robbins_]

I'm not really clear on what your saying any more, as that seems a slight change since your initial post. I fully agree there should be a concentrated effort to just getting it done, and I try to do that with the limited chunks of time I have. But I don't understand why this would be 'instead' of, or how this is any change to what is intended already.

Are you saying that we shouldn't be tweaking graphics to look perfect?, and/or are you saying that it shouldn't be an individual doing this, but all?

I disagree partly to the first point in relation to some sprites I've worked on, becuase of the way issues with some of the fundamental underlying sprites effect the way that other sprites shall be made. Standardisation of various things is impossible without a stable starting point, and therefore it's important to get things correct from the start.

I think the wiki pages are there, the archive is there, and people are bundling up packs of graphics. Everything can be kept updated, organised, and suggestions made on what graphics need doing/changing maybe, but really it boils down to just making sprites and letting it come together when completion nears which is basically as Hyronymus said.

Sorry if this all sounds a little unwelcoming of help. I think any help is great, but I'm struggling to see the underlying message here, other than that we should just get it done.

[Wasila]

The reason there isn't is that the OpenGFX bunch are working / have worked towards that one specific goal, which is an open graphics package, while the 32 bit graphics artists have worked to release their own bits of experimentative work as kind of one-off improvements to the 8bit game. Making a graphics pack of all 32bit stuff released up to this point is very time consuming because you have to ask every artists's consent, and as such, it hasn't really been done. The megapack was our best effort yet, but I'm not sure where that stood in a legal sense.

The reason why we're not where OpenGFX is now is, no one's taking charge as of yet. No one has gone, "right, we're going to make a full graphics replacement set now, so start churning out content as fast as possible - no matter what quality, we'll improve sprites when the set is finished". As we know, that is what Zephyris and LA did on the 8bit side of the fence and it worked fantastically well. In 32bpp, artists do their best to make sprites of impeccable quality for whatever item they find interesting, not necessarily ones we actually need and nowhere near at a fast enough pace. As a result we still only have a fraction of the game's sprite bank converted to 32bpp even though the 32bpp effort is 3, 4 or 5 times older, and the sprites we do have aren't necessarily donated to the common cause.

What we need is an OpenGFX "32bpp edition", where another Zephyris/LordAzamath will coordinate the effort and also provide momentum by rolling out their own artwork at an industrial rate. I would, but I can't make sprites, and while I like the coordinating bit, there's no denying it's a humongous job, which is why the OpenGFX guys deserve no less than all the credit they get, and more.

I hope that helps explain the situation.

[Ben_Robbins_]

Well speaking specifically about 32bpp full zoom here, actually a couple of people have taken charge of the project, but don't any more. It was never said to 'just rattle off work at whatever quality' though and I'm glad of that, and I don't really believe that was taken so literally on the Opengfx project either, if it was, then by chance great graphics where made. I think this does in part come down to some of the initial work done that set a standard people then went for which was a point I stated in my previous post. Artists choosing to make graphics that they find interesting happens regardless as to how clear it is made what is needed. It's because this is a hobby, not a job. You can list what needs to be done, but people may do what they want.

I think to say that we are not where opengfx is now is a bit irrelevant. Different projects, a lot more to do, and a different way of doing it. No sprites preexist for the project either. It moved fast and credit to that. I would say, like artists such as Zephyris did; lead by example, progress and then the goals become apparent and others join on route.

[Wasila]

Not necessarily at 'whatever quality', it's just that we don't need perfection; that can be a target strived for later. You can see this in things like desert tiles, where a lot of work is put into graphics that are already great.

[Wasila]

Been discussed in the Organisation thread - are people happy with a standard of GPL v2? (OpenGFX and OpenTTD license)

[tsjook]

Yes I am, and most people posting in the new graphics Blender .blend-thread seem to be, as IIRC posting pictures in that thread after a certain date implied agreement to that licence unless explicitly stated otherwise.

But it might still be a good idea to confirm with all the artists.

[Ben_Robbins_]

Why would posting into that thread mean that something is GPL v2? No agreement is signed at any point, I wasn't even informed upon posting or uploading in that thread. Things are released by the artist, as the artist states.

[FooBar]

Just get everybody's permission via PM. That worked for OpenGFX. I'm sure it will work again. If a 'new guy' then posts something, immediately ask for permission while he or she is still active on the forums.

It only needs one person to gather these sorts of permissions. Zephyris started that for OpenGFX and once he got too busy with real life, I took over that job from him. Eventually there was just one bloke we couldn't get a hold of. No big deal, just drop whatever he did and redo a few sprites.

[Wasila]

Contacted 8 artists, including and mostly consisting of all those who have submitted to Jupix's repository.

[GeekToo]

For the record, to avoid later discussions I'll do this in public:
I release any tars or png files I've uploaded in this forum or on Jupix repository up til this moment under the GPL-2 and GPL-3 licence. I grant permission to any user of this forum or OpenTTD developer to redistribute them in a larger graphics pack or to modify them as needed. This includes also the toolbar tar, for which I have JoeD's permission to use the sprites he created.
One exception: the town houses that I created (http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=722362#p722362) are a derivative work of DMH_Mac's work, maybe not recognizable as such. I do have his permission to modify and distribute that, but he released his work under the CC-BY-SA licence, so I'm bound to that for redistribution, and you'll have to contact him if you want to relicence it.

<edit>corrected dmh_mac's name </edit>

[Wasila]

As I cannot find a user named DMC_Mac, if you have his e-mail could you ask him? If you don't we'll have to stick with what we have.

[GeekToo]

Sorry, typo, it's: dmh_mac

[Wasila]

Contacted.

[Wasila]

This weekend I'll start working on the wiki. So far, by the way, I've contacted 10 and received 3 agreements. Also, regarding http://wiki.openttd.org/Stations_Tracks ... raphics%29, is there a place where I can grab hold of those sprites without the background colour? Are those completed sprites all in Jupix's repository?

[maquinista]

I remember that I uploaded a file with all airport sprites available, but I am not 100% sure about it:
http://jupix.info/openttd/gfxdev-repo/i ... file&id=36

[Wasila]

I believe it says only ground sprites. So terminals etc are excluded?

[Ben_Robbins_]

It may be better if you could ask all the people who you are asking to post it publicly somewhere, and then write a list of those names in the topics opening post, with a list of the names, and each name linking to the post where that person has stated it.

Although I'm sure you will genuinely seek the artist's permission. It does avoid any scepticism if it is publicly stated, as well as making it easy to reference, and for other people to add to and find in the future.