"French Trains Set - freight rolling stock needs drawing

[Purno]

Isn't the TGV Atlantique coded already by someone?

Yes it is, IIRC. Forgot who did it (Szappy perhaps?) and where the file is... I'll search for it quickly.

EDIT: Bernhard did: http://ttdgraphics.cjb.net/graphid.php?id=106

EDIT 2: Bernhard started work on the Duplex too, sometime ago. I don't know wether he had finished it.

[Lakie]

Well, I still have the nfo for the Duplex, so if someone gives me some stats for it,
I'll quite happly finish coding it, when I have time of course.

~ Lakie

[krtaylor]

Wouldn't the TGVs be on the third track type? They run on special track, don't they?

[jvassie]

The only way it is special is that they have dedicated lines, the website http://www.trainweb.org/tgvpages/tgvindex.html gives detail on the track. Only TGVs can use TGV track, cos of the weight restrictions. TGVs can run on normal track thoguh (electrified).

A cool thing would be if the three track types were:

Normal Track
Electrified Track
High Speed Track (dedicated highspeed)

James

[Snail]

Great to hear feedback! That's really appreciated (and needed).

To Hovering Teacup:

this set could include some suburban tank engines like 232 or 242 or 141 (141TC or 141TD).

That's true. Well it's got the 141TA by now, but that's all. The problem was finding the specs. I only proposed engines for which I could find most of the specs (and I couldn't even find 141TA's power, by the way). If you or someone else can help finding the specs of tank engines like the 232 or the 242, it'd be great to have them too.

the 242 a1 steam must be a prototype.

I agree, 242 A1 was a prototype, but it happened to be the most powerful steam loco ever built (at least in Europe). It never came to production because of SNCF's decision to switch to electrics at such a late stage (1946). I thought it'd be cool to give it a chance in TTD

Also, the 160 available in 1940 is.

Yes it is. My original plan to put the 150. But I couldn't find any specs for it, while I could for the 160. If you can help me with the 150's specs, I'd definitely switch to that model.

the cc80000 is prototype

Coming to think about it, yes it is. It was even produced with a turbine engine. Should I remove it?

you don't need all variations of locomotives of the same conception like "bb8500, bb17000 and bb25500" and "cc6500 and cc21000". just take one for each.

I was thinking about how to manage the loco groups. Take the Danseuses, for instance. The group includes various models built in the Sixties and the BB88500, the renewed version of the 8500, introduced in 1996 (basically they were revised 8500's). So it covers a very long life span. Should we just put the "BB8500" loco with model life spanning from 1964 to forever? (1996 BB88500 are gonna last for quite a while I think).

The solution would be to change the loco's name with time, but AFAIK it's not possible (or is it?)
Maybe we should just take the most representative loco of each group and name the whole group after it. If it's OK with you guys, my next revision of the list will be done like that.

To Purno:

Love your graphics, man. The TGVs are great.
Just a couple of minor details.

- In the carriages just attached to the engines, the way the raised part of the roof ends should be smoother (the higher, darker part of the roof seems to be kind of truncated). The effect should be smoother, like in these pics:






- The TGV Atlantique/Réseau/Duplex's carriages should have a colored part in the "blue" (upper) zone of its doors. Colors are red for 1st class, yellow for bar wagon, and green for 2nd class. A bit like the TGV which appeared in the ancient French set:



As you can see, each carriage has one door, colored in the appropriate shade. In reality they look like this:


first class and


second class.

You can see colors in the other pics, too. So the consists should be:
Réseau and Duplex: engine + 3 first-class coaches (red doors) + 1 bar coach (yellow door)+ 4 second-class coaches (green doors) + engine
Atlantique: engine + 4 first-class + 1 bar + 5 second-class + engine. (not sure about this one though, it's my best guess - the Réseau is correct though).

- The Thalys' coaches should have a thicker dark red stripe on the upper part:





I like the X2100 too. I'm no graphic artist, but perhaps it needs a bit more shading?

Anyway, great work man, keep it up!


As for carriages, I thought about introducing local ones in 1924 and express in 1926. How does it sound?

I don't know whether to introduce new track types for TGVs. In reality they do run on dedicated tracks, but they use normal ones to enter cities. Ideally, we should let them go up to (say) 220 on normal tracks and add a third railway type on which TGVs would be allowed to go at full speed. But I'm afraid it's not possible

Cheers!

[wallyweb]

French Set - Série française Tracking Table Is Up

It is here:

http://users.tt-forums.net/frenchset/frenchsettable.html

Just have The Irish's SNCF 172049 and the first four from Snail's Excel file up for now and still adding.
May take awhile ... 100 + engines?

Hey! Cheer up! The page is launched!

Let me know if you have any priorities or rush jobs to be loaded and I'll jump to them. The page has an index so order is not an issue. Use the email link in the page to get the fastest reponse or PM me.

[jvassie]

I think for the atlantique it is:

engine + 3 first-class + 1 bar + 6 second-class + engine.

james

[krtaylor]

You have to have a fully usable set of carriages in 1920. You can add more later, but you have to at least be able to carry everything in 1920.

[Snail]

Hi all,

this is the 0.12 version of my list for the French set. What I mainly did was to clean up the data for the steamers a bit and implementing a couple of suggested things.

Now we've got 110 IDs, which are a bit too many IMHO. I don't know what to drop though. Maybe the short stake wagons, letting steel be transported on short open wagons (MB-style).

- Removed CC80000 diesel engine because it was just a prototype
- Added two futuristic electric engines BB38000 and BB39000
- Changed initial high-performance steamer from 231G to 231A. The reason was, the 231G looked way too similar to the later 231's modified by Chapelon. The 231A looks "older" while maintaining the same specs.
- Added 232TC and 242TA tanker regional engines, as suggested in the forums
- Splitted the 241 and 240 steamers in two models each: one of first-generation introduced in the Thirties and another one of second-generation introduced in the Fourties with Chapelon's modifications.
- Specified the 232 model (232R from 1940).
- Edited some specs for DMUs.
- Added years for wagons introduction (1920 short ones, 1924 local traffic cars, 1926 express cars, 1930 long freight cars, 1968 faster freight cars, 1970 and 1985 modern stuff)

Known bugs:
- Still missing model life, engine life, reliability, almost all TEs.
- Some data missing for new tank steamers (232T and 242T) and no data found for 150 (if we want to switch to that from 160)
- 110 IDs already taken! Maybe we might want to leave something out.

What do you think about it? Especially, do you agree with point 5, when I splitted the 240's and 241's in order to better emphasize the impact of Chapelon's modifications on the old steamers? As you see, now both engines occupy two IDs, just like the 231, but the second generation models are more powerful. We can keep it this way if it's ok for you guys, or maybe we could drop one and focus on the earlier or later versions only.

Cheers!

[krtaylor]

I don't know what to drop though. Maybe the short stake wagons, letting steel be transported on short open wagons (MB-style).

You can combine things, allowing the short open wagons to be refit to carry stuff, and actually appearing as stake wagons, if you like.

I very much doubt you need that many locos. I'm sure there are lots of combinations, eliminations, and refits you can do. I don't know enough about French trains to really be able to tell from an Excel file though, I'll wait for the full tracking table with photos.

[wallyweb]

I thought The Irish might enjoy this.
I found the start date for the 72000 here:
http://pagesperso.laposte.net/astride36et72/accueil.html
The site has lots of stats but its all in French so let me know if you need translation.

[Snail]

Oh yeah, I saw that site too.
As I wrote on the list, though, that series had two different max speeds and power depending on the use each single loco was intended to (pax or freight). Some could go up to 160, others (most freighters) up to 140, limit which has been introduced for all after a certain age. And the power was also different. Most had 3016 hp, but some had 3550.

Which values do you think should we use? The least powerful were more common, but we might want to have a really strong diesel engine in the set.

[Purno]

Okay, guys don't post that much comments on my TGVs

Anyways, about the blue colors on the doors, someone told me not all TGVs had that, and I found it ugly so I didn't add it on my TGV.



About the tracking table: When is it completely finished with the complete list of what to do? And maybe a website like the Dutch Trainset one is better then only this list?

[hovering teacup]

comments on the xml.

the list doesn't have the bb75000 diesel yet.


for the question of the power of the cc72000, i'd go for the lower one cos it's by far the majority. if the set needs some powerful stuff, maybe the prototype cc70000 ? cos this set doesn't necessarily refuse prototypes. stats are following; constructed 1965, 140/105 km/h (dual gearing), 3530 kw (around 5000 hp), 117 tonnes, starting tractive effort 225/305 kN according to the gear used.
this is too interesting spec-wise so must be ridiculously expensive to keep balance with the 72000 IMO (and there's no contradction if a prototype is expensive ).
well even without such a monster the player can use two engines in the train.

for the 150 and similar things i have following data (they are pasted from my local file i created when i started to do my own french grf, and i don't remember the source)

151A; introduced 1932, 85 km/h, 2550 hp, 138 tonnes with tender, adhesive wright 93 tonnes

150P and 150B; introduced 1933, 120km/h or 105 km/h, 2200 hp or 2550 hp, 105 tonnes (probably without tender), adhesive weight 91tonnes


BTW i said "you don't need all variations of locomotives (...)" because i believed you had attributed IDs to all these variations. the left-most column looked like ID and now i realised it's not the case. sorry

and it's probably possible to change the class-name through time, using the action 9 or the action A. but we need to ask people more familiar with grf actions.

[Purno]

A cool thing would be if the three track types were:

Normal Track
Electrified Track
High Speed Track (dedicated highspeed)

James

Isn't supported. High Speed Track needs to be connected to Electrified Track, but only TGVs can run on High Speed Track.... That's not supported. Only thing you can do is not to connect High Speed Track with Electrified Track...

(at least in TTDPatch)

[uzurpator]

what is 'prototypical'?

Prototypical means "like the real thing (prototype)"

[jvassie]

Thats a shame, itd be cool to be able to do that and be able to differentiate a highspeed line

James

[wallyweb]

Allright folks ... You Europeans get up way too early in the morning for us Canadiens ... It is only 8:10 am here and there have been a ton of posts since I logged off last night. I love it! Lots of enthusiasm!

Rather than comment on each, I'll summarize.

Took a while to get the table squared away. The format is done now and set in stone. The only changes will be the most urgent ones such as a spec not included.

Now I can concentrate on the content and add trains! Mostly, I am working from Snail's very good excel file. The time part is visiting each link to get a good image (any dimension ... the larger the better for detail) for each train and then making a properly sized (w=240px * d=160px) thumbnail of the same image. Fortunately I have a good tool for this ... E-Paint by Alchemy Mindworks.

If you have a train to add, and its not in Snail's xls, let me know.
- If you can make a png thumbnail (w=240px * d=160px) to use along with the large image, excellent!
- Give me as much specification detail as possible.
- If at all possible, use the spec items from the table
- I need the proper name of the train and the start year
- If you post it here in the thread, PM me so I can find it.
- Better yet, use the "comments" link in the table page to email it to me.
- Here's a challenge ... I bet you guys can't fill my 2 gigs of gmail space! (music, videos and spam don't count! )
- Don't worry about whether a train should be included or not ... we'll put it in the table so that it can be properly evaluated by the team.
- Once a train is completed, sprites drawn and code coded, we can assign it a slot number to indicate it is accepted.

Purno ... Because there are a lot of trains to add to the table, this may take a while (? days... I'm not sure) ... When that is done I'll get busy on more web site design. Definitely, if there are any suggestions, I'll accept them now and keep them in a safe place until then. Use the "comments" link in the table page to send them to me. A post in the thread might get lost. I would like to add your TGV to the table so if you agree, could you send me what you would like me to use?

BTW ... per Owen's suggestion ... I have made an index page for the site so that some visitors don't accidentaly land on the directory list. It is very plain and it will be revised ... but not now ... suggestions welcome ... see above on how to submit them.

The index page is here:

http://users.tt-forums.net/frenchset/index.html

Happy drawing!

PS WHO WANTS A JOB AS LEAD CODER FOR THIS SET APPLY NOW

[Lt gable]

simple for the high speed tracks, the ballast is a concrete block, and the normal lines are like in TTD with red/brown balast.

i'm french and i know a bit of french trains. if need some information just tell me

[Singaporekid]

I tried to redo the TGV Atlantique, here's what I got so far