Locomotion Forum

[Kevo00]

To Andel and all TT Forums mods:

Would it be possible to make the Locomotion Forum harder to access for newbies, perhaps by password protection or some sort of quiz you have to do before getting into it? Or perhaps allow only people that have made more than 10 serious posts to get into it? Turning off smilies there would be a good start, especially this little guy:

My reason for asking is that it has been invaded constantly by trolls and spammers over the last couple of months either requesting vehicles that are already available for the game, making requests without following the guidelines, bumping requests after a day or so because no one makes what they want, asking stupid questions that could be answered by searching, generally making spam posts or even simply being rude about everyone else because they refuse to follow the forum guidelines.

I suspect some of these trolls are re-registering themselves under new usernames simply to spam again without being banned as well. This is really having a detrimental effect on the forums - the atmosphere there is really getting worse because the established users are getting really frustrated about the level of spamming, and I worry that this could eventually kill the English speaking Loco community off. I don't get much spare time to play Loco myself, but it is still nice to have somewhere to talk about and get ideas for the game, and I like creating scenarios when I get the time - I feel it would be a shame if this outlet was gone because of a few idiots that are spoiling it for people.

[Rubidium]

This seems to happen all over the place; I don't read OpenTTD's suggestion forum anymore because they are constantly resuggesting the same thing without searching. As in the real world it's always a small group of people who can't behave themselves that spoil it for the rest of the people.

Maybe a "one troll or not following the rules and you're banned for a week" policy? With a ban evasion means permanent ban rule too?

The problem with making 10 serious posts before you can get in is that nobody can get in because nobody can make serious posts when (s)he cannot get in.

[MjD]

Although it is very frustrating, taking a more friendly tone with these newbies and pointing them in the right direction (and being patient) is the thing I feel needs to be done. Too often they are getting practically flamed (for yes annoying things) which makes the forum possibly seem rather intimidating to newer members.

In terms of locking it off it would mean that people who may just browse and download items off the forum without registering wouldn't be able to do so any more, which may put people off visiting the forums.

My advice is to ignore them if they bother you, and let the moderating team teach them how to act within the forums.

MD

[Hyronymus]

I'm sorry but I refuse to take these suggestions seriously at all. If this is how you approach newbees then the problem isn't the newbees but your behaviour. They can't help it that you find yourself too good to help them out or that the forum became so vast that even searching it doesn't always yield a result.

If you want to prevent newbees from asking questions, give them answer in advance.

[Rubidium]

They can't help it that you find yourself too good to help them out or that the forum became so vast that even searching it doesn't always yield a result.

Do you think that I'm too good when searching for the title of their suggestions yields several valid results on the first page? Or when the exact same suggestion is on the first page of the related suggestions forum?

And the forum getting so vast is a vicious circle; people do not search and get a reply to search the forum, which makes it for the other persons that search harder to find the valid results because the newest posts (with the "go search" replies) get sorted on top with searching.

[Badger]

If you want to prevent newbees from asking questions, give them answer in advance.

Hardly a helpful comment really.

The answers are, for the most part, there already. They just don't look for them, and then, when asking for help, type out a post by mashing all the keys at once. Its hard work to read, let alone understand, especially for the non-english on these forums.
There's only so many times you help people before it becomes irriating.

[Hyronymus]

No, Rubidium. That was aimed primarily on Kevo00, although I find that moderators should point users to the search function instead of "bullying" them. Trust me, I know it's difficult at times (to use an euphemism) but it's our duty.

@ Badger: there are two things one can do. You can spot a problem every time it appears and just do that or you can spot a problem every time it appears, analyse why it happens and try to think of a solution. Fact is that newbees don't use the search forum, at least not around here. I find it a waste of time to cry about it everytime it happens, I rather look for a solution. A knowledge base could provide such solution.

[Kevo00]

Hyronymus, I am all for newbies coming to the Locomotion section. I don't approach newbies in a negative way and neither does anyone else that has posted in the Loco section for a long time. If I can answer a question that someone asks, I answer it.

The problem I have is with newbies that only come to the forum to make selfish requests, dig up topics pointlessly, spam with pointless posts and so on. Frequently in the past established members make polite replies to such posters only to find that the same posters are rude back to them. Prevention is usually better than cure, and I fail to see why dealing with things on a case to case basis will benefit the forum in long term.

As far as I see there is a lot of information out there for users to consult, and I wouldn't exactly call the Loco section 'vast'. The same questions tend to come up repeatedly in Loco anyway, and there is a perfectly good beginners forum that almost invites people to ask the 'stupid questions'. A thought on those lines might be that a new Loco Wiki might be a way forward.

[Hyronymus]

How often do they dig up topics then? I don't recall seeing reports in that section mentioning dig-ups. For moderators that is the only reliable and feasible way to battle it.

[andel]

If you want to prevent newbees from asking questions, give them answer in advance.

The answers are there, they just don't want to make an effort to search for them.

How often do they dig up topics then? I don't recall seeing reports in that section mentioning dig-ups. For moderators that is the only reliable and feasible way to battle it.

Daily, twice daily if not more. The reports go in and I often click close and deal with the digs each and every time.

The reports are made by users. I'm just online often enough to deal with most stuff quickly.

[XeryusTC]

One thing I've noticed a while ago when I tried to get some of my friends to play OTTD too that I had almost infinite patience with them. When newbies asked me the same questions on the forums I usually said that they should go search for the solution while I gave the solution to my friends via MSN and I didn't care how long it would take. Maybe it's just that it's easier to be a dick to people on the internet you don't know than to people who you do know. All I know is that I try to act the same way to newbies now, they also get the explaining treatment. The downside of that is that I don't "help" as much anymore because usually it takes too much time.
Anyway, I hope you will do something with this information and realise that newbs are also people looking for an answer...

[Hyronymus]

One thing I've noticed a while ago when I tried to get some of my friends to play OTTD too that I had almost infinite patience with them. When newbies asked me the same questions on the forums I usually said that they should go search for the solution while I gave the solution to my friends via MSN and I didn't care how long it would take. Maybe it's just that it's easier to be a dick to people on the internet you don't know than to people who you do know. All I know is that I try to act the same way to newbies now, they also get the explaining treatment. The downside of that is that I don't "help" as much anymore because usually it takes too much time.
Anyway, I hope you will do something with this information and realise that newbs are also people looking for an answer...

That's nicely put, XeryusTC.

[Kevo00]

But again, I stress the fact that my problem is not with people asking questions, its more the 'I want to know now' attitude if anything....

[Hyronymus]

That might very well be the problem with internet in general. As Xeryus put it: you don't know each other so it's very easy to "show off" or excel in blunt behaviour without a direct repercussion. As long as you put it nicely I suggest you urge the newbee to show more respect.

[Illegal_Alien]

It feels to me that none of the moderators realy care. I do want to be nice. But some are so lazy that they dont even read a topic about the same subject just 1 line beneath there own topic.

And if they are spamming your mailbox YOU will get annoyed. Good modmakers are now even considering leaving. I suppose THAT is not the meaning of this forum isnt it?

[Hyronymus]

I do care but I cannot motivate myself to work on a bash-the-newbee programme. But I'll promise to step up my visits to the LoMo forum and help out where needed. In the mean time I cannot stress enough to point newbees to the rules.

[Kevo00]

We're not asking for a bash-the-newbies programme, we're asking for a bash-the-trolls programme. These people are pointed to the rules constantly, but they continually ignore this and keep digging topics, positing spam and so on. Even I have been IMed by people looking for mods and I don't create any vehicles.

We want to encourage newbies in the Loco forum and some of our best contributors at present are people who joined recently. But they are people who are considerate and read the rules, unlike the disruptive element that we're complaining about.

Anyway, thanks for at least considering visiting the Loco forums a bit more.

[MjD]

But again, I stress the fact that my problem is not with people asking questions, its more the 'I want to know now' attitude if anything....

I think you can partly put that down to a language barrier, with people not having that good English skills, or using a poor translator. Yes there are people who do come to the forums and the language they use is more demanding, but I like to keep an open mind in case these people don't speak English as a first language.

MD

[SkeedR]

Why not have a sticky forum? It might take a while but if you could somehow get topics asking questions and ensure that no two topics ask the same question and then put(Copy maybe?) them all into a "Sticky Forum" and sticky them all and lock them all, they'll all always be in the same position ready for you to point to.

[Illegal_Alien]

Wont work, been there done that... (We have plenty of sticky but they dont read because thay are [beeeeeeeep] lazy.