Eastern european driving

[Ameecher]

The fact is, a helmet is a hell of a lot more likely to save your life.
I teacher of mine was recently paralysed as a result of a cycling accident. The helmet saved his life as his head was driven over by a van but the structural integrety of the helmet. In most cases though, in a collision with a vehicle a standard helmet will do sod all. What it does help with though is when you fall off (either in avoiding measures or whatever). If your head hits the concrete/tarmac then not only do you risk concussion but unconciousness. Being unconcious in the middle of a road is far from ideal, I'm sure agree.

Saying all that, I don't wear a helmet. I really ought to buy one.

[doktorhonig]

There's probably a big north/south gradient in driving habits, and South Norwegian guys probably drive calmer than Austrian ones. Driving in Vienna can be a big pain, walking through Vienna even more. Rush hour traffic is quite ok, but saturday night traffic is really a pain in the ass, with all those slippery hair-gel-guys going to their stupid discos. BMW and Audi drivers are worst.

From my personal experiences, Germans drive more carefully in towns, and - what I noticed during my civil service - they are very good at making room for ambulances. While Austrian guys haven't even noticed the blue lights, Germans are already out of your way. Hungarian guys drive more recklessly, especially when it comes to pedestrians crossing the road. Austrians tend to stop for passengers, if it's obvious that they want to cross the road.

Concerning cycling helmets: They're great for mountainbiking and racing, and I always wear one. But there are some studies that show, that a helmet can also be bad in some crashes, because it increases your heads weight and size. Another problem is, that cars tend to overtake cyclists with helmets with less distance.

[AndersI]

In Sweden we have a saying: "Bara träskallar klarar sig utan hjälm" ~ "Only people with wooden heads manage without a helmet" where 'träskallar/people with wooden heads' has the double meaning of 'blockhead, stupid person'.

We all wear helmets in our family, children and grownups. It's only mandatory up to 15 years old, but I find that incredibly stupid. As if the head suddenly can stand a crash into the street just because you're over 15.

The kids had a competition in school, trying to drop an egg from a window on the second floor without breaking it. After that competition it's quite easy for them to believe in the protection from a helmet...

Of course, separating bicycles from the other traffic is a good way to minimize the accidents, but a collision between two bicycles can also have a deadly result, as witnessed here in Eskilstuna some years ago.

[orudge]

Driving in the UK is generally fine, provided you stay out of the big cities, the majority of which are horrible to drive in, particularly with recent "traffic calming" additions and so on. (I think Andel must be insane to say driving in London is fine. ) Driving in Brazil now, that's something else. The drivers there are pretty much insane. While in a taxi back from Conde to Natal, our taxi driver drove at somewhat approaching twice the speed limit a lot of the way (up to 130km/h-ish, with a limit of 60-70km/h for some of the way). To be fair, the speed limits in places are set quite low, but doing motorway speeds on bumpy single-carriageways is not something I'd like to do!

[athanasios]

...our taxi driver drove at somewhat approaching twice the speed limit a lot of the way (up to 130km/h-ish, with a limit of 60-70km/h for some of the way). To be fair, the speed limits in places are set quite low, but doing motorway speeds on bumpy single-carriageways is not something I'd like to do!

Actually the danger in such cases is when the road is narrow with curves so you don't have enough visibility. On an empty straight road there is nothing to fear. Once I drove 95km/hr on a gravel road near my mother's village. The road was wide, empty and straight, so there was no danger at all. But I didn't continue driving at the same speed when it got narrower and curvy. But one night the boyfriend of a girl from our village wasn't cautious, while riding his bike on the same road, and finally lost his spleen. At least he was lucky to be found the next morning by a passerby and he was transferred to Athens by a helicopter. Just a couple more hours and he would be dead.

...i would like to see 20mph limits in urban areas, this would have a knock on effect for reduced congestion as it would improve the flow rate,...

Of course! Everyone would abandon his car and never use public transportation as walking would be faster! And I would buy a donkey because a horse would break the speed limit!

[ThorRune]

...i would like to see 20mph limits in urban areas, this would have a knock on effect for reduced congestion as it would improve the flow rate,...

Of course! Everyone would abandon his car and never use public transportation as walking would be faster! And I would buy a donkey because a horse would break the speed limit!

Actually, the idea is not half-bad. Generally streets in-city in norway has 50kph/30mph limits, but driving that fast when there is lots of pedestrians that you can't allways really see comming out from behind parked cars, etc, is not allways safe. People don't tend to go 50. A speed limit of 30kph/20mph in-city would largely increase safety. Seeing as people who walk fast walks 5-6-7 km/h, it's still faster to drive. Cykeling in-city is often much faster then cars though, mainly because you can freely choose wether you want to go by pedestrian or car rules. I've not cyceled in Oslo, but in Sortland and Bodø, cities with very calm driving, i can get from A to B much faster on a bike then on a car. I would probably be killed in Oslo

Also, there is quite a significant difference between 130 and 100 km/h! When you start acellerating over a hundred, you'll really feel the differance each 10 more kilometers. I usually drive at the speed limit, but i have to admit i've fallen for temptation to acellerate over it a few times. 100 km/h is usually fine, but when i passed that in a tunnel it just didn't feel good. I've sat in the backseat with someone who was thundering down a motorway at what the speedometer said was 160, probably 140 really, km/h - he did not slow down for the smaller 70 or 60 zones.. It did not feel right. It did not feel exiting ether, it just felt rougher and slightly unsafe and definitely retarded. Luckily, that guy was caught going 140 in a 80-zone, lost hes license and spent a few months in jail.

I agree with doktorhonig about hes obesrvation of north/south driving. The more south, the more crazy, for the most part. That sort of goes for oher parts of people too Hehe.

American driving though... I've only heard about it, but it seems from what i've heard that there are only slow-slow speedlimits, and the traffic system is generally made for sheffarding around morons. Like the "Yield!" signs on highway on-ramps, and the "Objects in your mirror may be closer than they appear".

[athanasios]

I wouldn't trust anyone driving at 160 besides myself. Actually after 120 or 130 you don't feel comfortable as car starts shaking (unless you 've got a BMW or Mercedes). When you go so fast you must be very carefull, not listen to music, not talk to others etc... It is a pity many drive so fast carelessly and in roads they shouldn't.

Yesterday it was the Orthodox Easter celebration here. This means I had the joy to break some speed limits again, as the city was empty. (e.g. 85km/hr on a 40km/hr speed limit, and damn it, someone overtook me there! . Note: Before someone starts nagging again, be informed that I pass from there often and I know every meter of the road. Certainly I will not go through the tricky, without traffic lights junction that follows with the same speed. But for the big curves that follow, unless the road is wet, the limit is pointless as the road is pretty wide-except for trucks of course.)

By the way, yesterday I saw 2 car accidents. 2 fouls hit from behind other cars near traffic lights. This is inexcusable, unless the road is wet and you start sliding. Such worthless drivers ignore the rule to keep the proper distance when they drive fast. They just stick behind the car in front of them. 10 days ago when the driver of the car in front of me pushed his brakes, I did the same. A biker behind me didn't have the proper distance and was lucky not to hit my car. But the moron instead of getting a lesson to be more cautious, came next to my window and started cursing me. The b*** wanted me to expose my family to danger to spare him! I don't care a damn s*** for them. Also what do the fouls expect you to do when the car in front of you suddenly brakes? As if you have all the time available to look through the mirror... )

[ThorRune]

Driving 80 somewhere marked for 40 is inzane, no matter how much you know the road and think it will be okay. There is a limit to how much you can feel free to bend the law to your own willing, before you're taking too much of a liberty. Going twice the speedlimit is definitely beyound that liberty. I think from what you write that you clearly are one of those dangerous people who believe your driving skills to be far beyound everyone elses. When you find an exuse for why the people hurt and killed by driving crazily are killed and why it won't happen to you, and apperantly completely trust that relatively thin reason, i believe you are of the kind of people that are the most dangerous on the road exept the ones that don't give a damn.



I just was to mallorca in spain. It was interesting to see - people were so good at stoping at footwalks! I'm not sure if that is the right word, but the white stripes where pedestrians cross the road. The cars allways stopped, even more easily then other places. However, they did it wrong. They did not gradually slow down their cars and show that they were planning to slow down, instead they went full speed and then suddently braked hard. That was the general feeling of all the driving - not smooth, rather hard, and sometimes insanely fast. I think i'm thus far confirming the north/south gradient, allthough driving in Mallorca was less crazy than in Romania.

[athanasios]

I "don't give a damn"!
Nobody stops at footwalks here. They "don't give a damn" either!
Aah, this time I was a "good boy". Not much above the speed limit of 120km/h. (Because my car cannot do 240!)
Just kidding. If I go faster I 'll get caught and pay a lot.

[Ameecher]

I think you've got the wrong reasoning for NOT driving fast. They fine you for speeding not just to line their pockets but to try and make the place safer!

[athanasios]

No! That's what they want the trolls to believe...
They aim our pockets.

[doktorhonig]

Is this a Hyundai Accent?

[Ameecher]

No! That's what they want the trolls to believe...
They aim our pockets.

Ah the niavety.

[athanasios]

...naivety.

Yep, it is a Hunday Accent. This is what my pocket can afford.

[Ameecher]

...naivety.

I won't rise to that...

[hippeebus]

Well, I live in the UK. The laughing stock of europe's roadways.

The roads aren't so bad, but good luck finding anywhere to park without having to pay some sort of fine!

[Zooz]

Oh god, helmet discussions

The people calling us Dutch crazy are usually the ones who haven't been here much. Everyone rides bikes frequently from an early age, there are lots of cyclists on the road, every car driver has also been on a bike quite a few times, we have lots of cycling lanes and paths, everything has been designed with lots of cyclists and their safety in mind, in accidents the guy in the car is always at fault, and cyclists are basically the kings of the road. No one ever uses helmets, with the exception of some small kids, and mountainbikers and bike racers in full gear.
And it's not needed, because you don't get hit by a car unless you're doing something completely retarded or the driver is drunk or you're cycling without lights at night (falls under the completely retarded category, too), and even then the speed limit will probably save you in a town, and outside of one you'd probably be on a separate cycling path anyway. I've always biked at least half an hour a day (30 min commute by bike now) and never been hit, can't even think of any close calls, and the last time I fell was when I was a kid and got a wheel off the road, then you just fall, scrape your knee and go on (this should happen regularly as a kid otherwise you're being too careful). Also, I drove into a parked car once. As far as I know this is a typical experience here. Only one of the other kids I knew got hit, at low speed on a crossing in a city by a car that should have stopped. The bike got bent up a bit and he was all scratched up and a bit dizzy, no lasting damage.

That, and helmets look stupid and are impractical, not only while cycling, you also have to store it somewhere when at your destination or lug it around with you, which is inconvenient when you use your bike to go everywhere that's not far away.

On-topic, driving is pretty calm here, people generally obey the speed limits except when they don't make sense (30 kmh on a long, wide, straight main road in a town, anyone? seriously, they're going crazy with 30 and 60 km/h zones in random places around here lately) and they drive fairly safely (there are always exceptions, of course). When I was in Wales I thought many people were crazy drivers there, but I guess that happens when the roads you regularly drive on are that narrow and twisty. I'm sure it's much worse in some places.