NewGRF (Air)ports - general discussion

[Digitalfox]

Nice work richk67

But richk67 are you abandoning, the idea of other orientations for all aiports??
I thought that was one of the big ideas, that's why there were arrows for all sides, N W E S ..

Keep the good work

[belugas]

Thank you Sir
And good job you do, by the way... (even if i've not told you yet on IRC )

[richk67]

Nice work richk67

TYVM

But richk67 are you abandoning, the idea of other orientations for all aiports??
I thought that was one of the big ideas, that's why there were arrows for all sides, N W E S ..

No, far from it. But its the priorities of things. Basic first thing is to get it loading old games, with all current state machines in and working.

Both the small, and city airports require large sets of new graphics to provide the additional angles. Some of these may appear, and when they do, they still have to be coded into the newgrf.

The more modern airports are more adaptable to the other orientations, and its mainly just a matter of working out what graphics are needed. However, I would estimate it to be at least 1.5-2hrs for 1 rotation of say the International. It mounts up. Ultimately, since the whole idea is to use newgrf, then someone else could even come along, and add the extra Prop 09 tiles, and extra Prop 0E layout per orientation. The mechanism is there.

To help on this, there are 2 important things.
1) I have uploaded the original - commented - .nfo files into \bin\data\sprites, along with their graphics files. So if anyone wants to have a go at designing the other angles in airportsextended.grf, take a look at the .nfo. Realworldairports.nfo is not publically released, atm.
2) I have uploaded the FSMports NewGRF spec into the repository in the \docs directory. This is pretty extensive, and when read in conjunction with one of the commented .nfos its not too horrendous. A lot of kudos and respect to Dalestan for his early drafts, and the many revisions and corrections he has assisted with.

Things will improve massively for rotation, especially when I introduce Skidd13s wonderful new 4 way graphics. These give every building its 4 angles. You will see in airportsextended.pcx that there are already quite an assortment of useful graphics - other way runways, diagonal runway parts, runway numbers. We are also looking at a new way of layering sprites so that you can have a masked section of respriteable runway overlaying a respriteable groundtile. So that would allow for different tarmac varieties, on the different climate soils. eg. a concrete runway over a sandy soil in desert, but the same graphic providing for tarmac in temperate. May be a step too far...

[MarkyParky]

I am now learning to understand the way graphics and FSM is coded on my homeairport.



As soon as I will understand it enough, I am going to give you helping hand with classical airports.

[richk67]

If you want to add fences, you will find the four fence definitions at the bottom of the airportsbasic.nfo. Just copy (and uncomment) the relevant line to inside your Prop09 tile definition.

[MarkyParky]

Thnx. I understand almost all about graphics now, but FMS is bit more complicated and also bit less commented ...

[richk67]

Best looking FSMs to look at for comments are the newer output ones in airportsextended.nfo. I would recommend the Metropolitan airport.

[George]

Wallyweb just set a nasty thought in my brain. For truck stations, it'll probably be necessary to be able to sort trucks by length and/or number of articulations. Does the FSM spec allow for this? It would also be desirable to make some trucks reverse into their loading bays. George's doubly articulated buses may also need some special handling.

Let me remind about this topic
http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=11067

[richk67]

Wallyweb just set a nasty thought in my brain. For truck stations, it'll probably be necessary to be able to sort trucks by length and/or number of articulations. Does the FSM spec allow for this? It would also be desirable to make some trucks reverse into their loading bays. George's doubly articulated buses may also need some special handling.

Let me remind about this topic
http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=11067

Didnt even know that one existed. Lorry support is quite a long way off yet. Ive got to finish the airports to my satisfaction, then turn the system generic. After that I want to produce some seaports, and crack the complexities of that, and only after that will I look at road vehicles.

Could be months Im afraid.

[George]

Wallyweb just set a nasty thought in my brain. For truck stations, it'll probably be necessary to be able to sort trucks by length and/or number of articulations. Does the FSM spec allow for this? It would also be desirable to make some trucks reverse into their loading bays. George's doubly articulated buses may also need some special handling.

Let me remind about this topic
http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=11067

Didnt even know that one existed. Lorry support is quite a long way off yet. Ive got to finish the airports to my satisfaction, then turn the system generic. After that I want to produce some seaports, and crack the complexities of that, and only after that will I look at road vehicles. Could be months Im afraid.

I just wanted to remind some points that were discussed before about routes.

[richk67]

I just wanted to remind some points that were discussed before about routes.

Its a good looking bus station design, and may be a suitable test for the project later. I'll look at it more then. Thanks for the info.

[Aydan]

I already posted this idea here but I'll post it here again since this thread seems to be dead:

I just had an idea about how to achieve in game modularity without having to use a fancy editor:
use construction blocks like runway+taxiway of different lengths and terminal areas with their own state machines and interface them at certain points.
This way the user could "design" its own airport without the trouble of having to code it from scratch.
Each block might only have one entrance and one exit point to interface with another block and you might have to build connectors (taxiways without intersections) to interface them.

[Rubidium]

I already posted this idea ...

And this idea has already been posted and rejected in this thread too.

[Aydan]

Not that I know of.
I'm not speaking of a free form editor but of separated state machines coded into a newgrf interfacing eachother.

[richk67]

Aydan... its one of the better thought our ideas for it, and would certainly be a good point to start if ever it was going to be created.

But ... its a lot of work for little payoff in my view, and not any part of this development.

[tannoy on]I would prefer if this thread did not become YATAMA... yet another thread about Modular Airports. There are plenty of those out there. Im quite happy to continue discussions about such things in those appropriate threads.[tannoy off]

[Aydan]

As i said I postetd id there and didn't get a response to it. So i tried it here. And since you're doing incredible work with the fsm coding I thought this thread would be as good as any to suggest it.
Could you answer my quesion anyway?
Is it technically possible to interface FSMs?

Thanks and keep up the good work
Aydan

[richk67]

Yes, you could, but it wouldnt be easy. Biggest problem is routing towards elements that are not in the section you are looking at. eg. which way should a plane route along a taxiway to get to the appropriate exit for the hangar, for the second terminal group, for the 3rd exit runway, etc.

All systems require a lot more decision knowledge than many of these proposals have thought about.

Interestingly, I will be separating the holding stack/s for airports from the airports themselves. This will allow an airport to be closed, and the aircraft to wait in the pre-airport holding stack. Effectively this is the state machine to state machine handover you are looking at. The big difference is I know 100% what the state of the aircraft will be going from one to the other (or in fact, it doesnt matter).

[richk67]

I have just uploaded the airportsextended.grf using Skidd13's graphics. This is a prototype, and we would appreciate comments on the graphics.

The basic state machines are now in, but may need further debugging.

All comments welcome. (Personally, I think Skidd13 has really done something special here, and should be applauded... I do... )

[athanasios]

First goes the applause: You both deserve it!

I have just uploaded the airportsextended.grf

link?

[belugas]

athanasios, he meant in the SVN branch, he commited them on the branch

I waswondering if it would b possible to have some "noise" added to all the structures of the airports.
They do look brand new, like no stain or else.

It is striking when you look at the coal mine beside the Metropolitan and Helistation, last pic.