Newobjects - Thoughts and Suggestions

wallyweb · Post by **wallyweb** » 21 Nov 2006 12:57

EDIT Renamed thread as newobjects are now a reality by eis_os and Lakie.
Watch here for some coding by Aegir (aka reldred)

SAC has her light standards (poles) and transmission towers.
Captain_Kirk is about to have his castle/fortress.
Other artifacts have been proposed previously and I'm sure that more will come.
A means of adding to the comunication tower and lighthouse should be found as opposed to simply replacing them.

Talking Points for this suggestion:

1. The lighthouse and communication tower are pretty much hard coded into TTD and it is all or nothing when replacing either of them.
2. Apparently it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to patch a way to provide for additional "eye candy" objects via the same code.
3. There is a demand and opportunity for additional "eye candy" objects.
4. How about creating another cargo class named "Miscelaneous" with label "MISC"?
5. This class would not be associated with any transportable cargo but would merely be a means of accomodating "eye candy" objects.

What are the thoughts on this?

Please keep the debate civil and provide solid reasoning for your suggestions and opinions.
Moderators are hereby requested and authorized to delete any flaming without prejudice or notice.

SAC · Post by **SAC** » 21 Nov 2006 13:26

I for one have suggested something like this on several occassions. The high voltage transmission tower I made can only be used for one single direction - unless I'm willing to get rid of the light pole, which I'm not really!

But as we all want this game to be as realistic as possible, it most certainly needs an option to place also "none-active" graphics. I have tons of ideas I would like to see implemented, and for a starter I've been forced to use additional station tiles for my "road signs", just to mention some of the "eye-candy" graphics I have. But again, I have tons of stuff I'd like to implement, and even though it's not possible to implement everything, an option to at least allow for more than just the original lighthouse and transmission tower would be very nice!

In other words, I totally agree that something needs to be done. In what way is a bit more difficult to say as I'm not familiar with patch options available, but Wally's idea certainly sounds interesting!

Redirect Left · Post by **Redirect Left** » 21 Nov 2006 13:33

Very good idea, a nice "eye candy" button or something would be good, but hard to code into the GUI probably, I Like this idea, and i iwll keep checking up on it

SAC · Post by **SAC** » 21 Nov 2006 14:38

Only problem is, the idea itself has been brought up before but recieved little or none interest from patch developers.

I really don't think it's because they aren't interested in doing something like this. I believe it's more or less a matter of time and the fact that they already are piled up with lots of work that are way more important than any "eye-candy" graphics!

But again, if it's possible I'd surely look forward to have it implemented - whenever that may be!

eis_os · Post by **eis_os** » 21 Nov 2006 18:41

@wallyweb, there is a limit of 255 station ids per game. Using them for other stuff is bad. The station list is already enough filled with non station objects.

Patchdevs need some kind of motivating for doing a feature. Otherwise it won't happen. At least I haven't seen any plan for a grf I would like to use or better say I need to use. *

Road signs - they belong to roads...

* I generally don't like single grfs who dictate all stuff of my TTD Game, so these grfs are not worth a mentioned atleast not for me)

Disclaimer: As usually this is my own opinion about it and don't reflect an opinion of other Patchdevs...

Patchman · Post by **Patchman** » 21 Nov 2006 18:48

It should not be too hard to allow placing station tiles not belonging to an actual station, say with station number 255.

It would need some fix for the placement code (to not create a station), the click code (to not try to open the non-existant station) and removal code, but all of these are patched already.

eis_os · Post by **eis_os** » 21 Nov 2006 18:53

We have enough room for storing full grfids in the landscape for bogus objects, so we don't need to screw stations really.

-edit-

eis_os@#tycoon wrote: [20:03] <eis_os> So my offer is:
[20:04] <eis_os> If I get a big cookie box for x-mas 2006 I will do it
[20:05] <eis_os> prefered filled with tasty cookies

wallyweb · Post by **wallyweb** » 21 Nov 2006 19:28

Thanks eis_os and patchman.

Actually my suggestion wasn't to use station tiles. Like eis_os said, they are limited and I for one have occasionally used them all up in a game.

With that in mind, my suggestion was to code them as an industry. I know the limit there is 90 per map which I have never reached in a game, unless I have purposely placed them in a scenario. The key here would be to create an industry which produces nothing (as with Power Stations) and accepts nothing. Of course there are no examples of the latter, so the question is can an industry be set to accept nothing? If yes, this might actually eliminate the need for some new coding.

Hmmm ... thinking of SAC's lights and transmission towers, that 90 limit might be reached more often than not so there might actually be a need for some extra coding to extend that 90 limit which may be difficult or impossible.

eis_os wrote:We have enough room for storing full grfids in the landscape for bogus objects, so we don't need to screw stations really.

But the problem would be how to access and display those objects, is it not? And that would be where the new coding would be required? Unfortunately I'm not a coder so I have no idea as to how difficult that would be.

eis_os · Post by **eis_os** » 21 Nov 2006 19:32

Sure there is always coding involved with a new window.

Scenario editor -> Change landscape -> press on a transmitter -> to the new window

Ingame -> press and hold the tree menu and select a new menu point "Objects" -> to the new window...

The drawing isn't the biggest problem, the resource and select management.
(Thats why I said a big box

)

wallyweb · Post by **wallyweb** » 21 Nov 2006 19:43

eis_os@#tycoon wrote: [20:03] <eis_os> So my offer is:
[20:04] <eis_os> If I get a big cookie box for x-mas 2006 I will do it
[20:05] <eis_os> prefered filled with tasty cookies

oooh! I missed your edit! Have you ever tasted maple flavoured maple leaf cookies?

eis_os · Post by **eis_os** » 21 Nov 2006 19:46

With maple syrup? I am not sure, I doubt I like that. And no, I don't think I have seen them here in Europe

Anyway, the transport from Canada would be overkill I guess...

Sometimes you wish the world be smaller... I will put it anyway in my mental to do list ...

wallyweb · Post by **wallyweb** » 21 Nov 2006 19:53

eis_os wrote:With maple syrup? I am not sure, I doubt I like that. And no, I don't think I have seen them here in Europe

Anyway, the transport from Canada would be overkill I guess... Sometimes you wish the world be smaller... I will put it anyway in my mental to do list ...

The cookies will be in the mail tomorrow. Is the address on your web site the correct one?

eis_os · Post by **eis_os** » 21 Nov 2006 19:55

Yes... The imprint address is right on bytetransfer.de

wallyweb · Post by **wallyweb** » 25 Nov 2006 01:25

Its official. Captain_Kirk's fortress drawn by Oz and coded by WhiteHand and available here has been added to the list of objects able to replace TTDX's original lighthouse and/or communication tower. We now have the fortress as well as SAC's lights and transmission towers as well as a small assortment of communication towers.

Note that these objects take up a one tile footprint and have no production or acceptances. They serve no purpose other than the ability to dress up our games. In a new game they are placed randomly with the communication towers appearing on top of higher elevations and on large airports and the lighthouses appearing near coasts. They can be positioned by the player only when creating a scenario. Furthermore, the new objects will replace one of the two existing object types and currently are not available as additions.

A bribe has been mailed to arrive sometime within the next six weeks according to Canada Post and hopefuly this will result in a method providing for addtional objects instead of replacements. We are all waiting patiently and with a little luck the customs man won't taste all the cookies first.

eis_os · Post by **eis_os** » 25 Nov 2006 08:52

Well yesterday I tried to write Action 0 prop 8 for object classes,
as I said it's complicate and will need it's time. Hmm 6 Weeks, I guess they will be a bit late... anyway. As I said I already write code for it (as you may see on lot questions to Josef on the irc channel recently )

My current draft is a mix of stations, newhouses, canals action system:

You have 255 object classes (like stations)

You can load 255 objects overall in these classes. (Otherwise you get a GRM error, like stations)

You can define a substitute building:
a transmitter, a company owned land, a lighthouse

You can flag a building as native overwrite. (Except airport) If more then one building requests this, the last one takes it.
However I plan to allow to build the TTD default ones anyway aswell...

wallyweb · Post by **wallyweb** » 25 Nov 2006 10:38

WOW! I am glad you decided to give this a try. Thank you Oskar.

The bribe would have been sent by air but it would have cost 5x as much + fuel surcharge. Also the post office lady said they use regular ships and not hovercraft. I told her that in TTDX we can use hovercraft. She told me to ship them TTDX then. I told her "no no ... by ship will be fine".

Something that I do not understand .. do you mean:
1. that there can be 255 object classes x 255 objects available in each class
or
2. even though there are 255 object classes the maximum number of available objects is hardcoded to 255.
?

When you say one can define a substitute building, does this mean substituting for an item already placed on the map by the game?

Allowing to build the default ttd objects as well sounds like a good idea.

I am looking forward to seeing how this will all work out.

BobDendry · Post by **BobDendry** » 25 Nov 2006 12:25

I'm quite looking forward to this, eis_os. You have our full support, for sure

eis_os · Post by **eis_os** » 25 Nov 2006 13:34

You can have 255 objects - the ttd transmitter and ttd lighthouse, not more.

You can have however 255 classes. It works much like the stations. You can have 255 ids and not more. So you can have for each object an own category.

The random map generator places TTD objects, or you load an old game this results in useing the one of the native overwrite feature.

If the grf (and so a object) can't be found anymore the subst. type will be used.

Michael24 · Post by **Michael24** » 28 Dec 2006 19:53

Whats the progress here?

eis_os · Post by **eis_os** » 29 Dec 2006 08:35

I recieved cookies by wallyweb.

Well I work on the specs as you see on the wiki and on the internals, like yesterday I have written some base code for the selection window and added atleast some notes on the wiki... If I have time I work on that feature...

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Newobjects - Thoughts and Suggestions

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