Michael Blunck's new graphics [http://www.ttdpatch.de/]

[lifeblood]

And here´s something new (to get even further away from OT ):

Working along the lines of "city stations on slopes" as discussed recently, I´ve come up with a first sketch for this special feature. It loosely reminds of Berlin-Friedrichstrasse station.

Inspirational, as always, Michael.

[earlwarren]

Before I forget... I was wondering, whether it would be possible to have a catenary system, which, if there are more than two parallel electrified tracks, would look like on the attached picture... just thinking that such a thing might look cool and more realistic.

[Marshy]

I was thinking about that too, would be a great idea.

[m3henry]

I know that years ago, there was a successful project to make ballast between the tracks although i cant remember who did it.

[Villem]

Before I forget... I was wondering, whether it would be possible to have a catenary system, which, if there are more than two parallel electrified tracks, would look like on the attached picture... just thinking that such a thing might look cool and more realistic.

I'm pretty sure i discussed this with a few patchdevs quite some time ago, and the conclusion was that it was one of the "impossible" features to do..

[michael blunck]

Yes, cross span (bridges) have been discussed years ago only to be found to be too difficult to implement. In addition they don´t look really good because TTD´s tracks are spaced that much.

regards
Michael

[Georg]

I could easily change it along the same lines as I did for the 110 and those steamers. E.g., for the 103 you´ll have an additional refitting option like "passengers(TEE) ./. passengers" (maybe after 1985 or so?) and for the latter you´ll get the normal ocean-blue/cream 1974s long-distance coach then.

That refitting option would be totally utterly awesome. The oldest pictures of the red/ cream-oceanblue/ cream intercities which I found date back to 1983. So you are quite right with 1985.

Second-class-service was introduced to some of the German "InterCity"-trains in 1976 and to all of them in 1978.

[michael blunck]

[DB InterCity services]

Hi Georg, long time not seen you visiting here.

Second-class-service was introduced to some of the German "InterCity"-trains in 1976 and to all of them in 1978.

Under the auspicies of that "IC '79 programme"? ("Jede Stunde, jede Klasse")?

What kind of coaches have been used before the introduction of newly built Eurofima coaches ("Bpmz", in oceanblue/cream) since 1979/80? "Bm"s in "F-blue"? Or something other in oceanblue/cream?

And what kind of second-class IC coaches have been used after the oceanblue/cream era ended? All red/white like first class?

I could probably settle the IC scheme in such a way as introducing classes for Intercity services and change the livery, capacity and loading amount due to manual refitting, but I need some clues with regards to the time frames and used liveries without digging too deep into photo galleries.

I know you could give some helpful input.

regards
Michael

[zero1000]

hi michael,

have you redesigned the SVT-137 in a way, that only the "Hamburg" type is possible to build (two power cars)? i.e. you have deleted the SVT-137 coach, so it's not possible to build a "Leipzig" type with a middle coach anymore?

[michael blunck]

> have you redesigned the SVT-137 [?]

Yes, I did. I´m in a process to redesign all the older material.

> in a way, that only the "Hamburg" type is possible to build (two power cars)? i.e. you have deleted the SVT-137 coach, so it's not possible to build a "Leipzig" type with a middle coach anymore?

Well, yes. Although I´m not totally sure how to proceed with those SVTs.

Firstly, I´ve introduced another DMU, the VT137 "Ruhr", for S-Bahn services (lower 120km/h speed but faster loading/unloading) and this one is in three (or six) parts. Because of this, I thought it wouldn´t be a good idea to have the SVT in the DBXL (whatever type it turns out to be) to be a three-part DMU as well.

You may, however, add two type "Hamburg" to get a four-car DMU.



Does this make sense?

I know that this whole SVT stuff is difficult, game-wise.

regards
Michael

[zero1000]

well, i think it was a good idea to add the VT137 as a commuter train w/ lower speed but higher loading/unloading. do you implementd a fix consists of 3 VT137 coupled? or its possible to buy the VT137 as single cars?

im not sure, but i think there were different VT137 types. The ordinary 4-axle railcars, with different possible consist lengths and the VT137 "Ruhr" type, a fix 3-car consist like the SVT-137's w/ Jakobs bogies.

about the SVT's: true, all types were build of different cars, so i think it's ok to limit the SVT-137 to the type "Hamburg". but on the other hand the visual differences are not sigificant in the TTD size, so it would be also ok to allow a 2-car consist (type "Hamburg") and a 3-car consist (type "Leipzig", "Köln" and "Berlin" were build of 4-axle cars).

attached some gifs from bahnschranke.de

[michael blunck]

well, i think it was a good idea to add the VT137 as a commuter train w/ lower speed but higher loading/unloading.

Yes, because a commuter DMU was missing. OTOH, we´ll have EMUs for both long-distance (ET-11) and regional services (ET-31).

do you implementd a fix consists of 3 VT137 coupled? or its possible to buy the VT137 as single cars?

It´s a fixed 3-part consist but you may add another consist, i.e. a total of 6 cars.

im not sure, but i think there were different VT137 types.

Yes, o/c. In general, the numbers "VT 137 000 - VT 138 999" were provided for "4-axle diesel railcars", VT-133s were 2-axle diesel railcars, etc.

The ordinary 4-axle railcars, with different possible consist lengths and the VT137 "Ruhr" type, a fix 3-car consist like the SVT-137's w/ Jakobs bogies.

Yes, the "Ruhr" type was a fixed 3-part consist with Jacob´s bogies (B'2'2'B'). There were other VT-137s, e.g. the series 097 - 109 and 210 - 223 which were based on the "Einheitsgrundriß", or the 058 - 067 and 075 - 079 series which were based on the "Eilzugwagen-Grundriß". Then we have VT137s based on the "Grundriß Essen" (080 - 093) and many other variants ... Anyway, I´ll restrict to one SVT and one VT-137.

about the SVT's: true, all types were build of different cars, so i think it's ok to limit the SVT-137 to the type "Hamburg". but on the other hand the visual differences are not sigificant in the TTD size, so it would be also ok to allow a 2-car consist (type "Hamburg") and a 3-car consist (type "Leipzig", "Köln" and "Berlin" were build of 4-axle cars).

IMO, there´s no easy solution. There a some important issues to keep in mind:

- the SVT are a very important development in german railways, so one of them has to be included (only one, because of lack of IDs),

- from game-balancing reasons, it should be included as early as possible, preferably 1933 than 1938 (SVT 877 in 1932, "Hamburg" and "Leipzig" 1935, "Köln" and "Berlin" 1938) ,

- there were different layouts: 2-part ("Hamburg"), 3-part ("Leipzig", "Köln") and 4-part ("Berlin"). Because this SVT would be implemented as an "articulated engine", you may add consists but you may not add carriages, i.e. the number of cars will be fixed,

- in any way, there will be an additional commuter DMU (preferably type "Ruhr") which will be a fixed 3-part consist,

- not all of the SVTs were used by the DB after WWII: in fact only types "Hamburg" and "Köln" were taken over, those of type "Leipzig" remained in East Germany and the last type of "Berlin" had been (uselessly) divided between DB and DR,

- After the DRG era, I want to use the DBXL´s SVT as an "F-Zug" (F-train) in the early 1950s, that would speak for type "Köln" which had been used as DB types "VT 06.1" and "VT06.5" during this time,

- all SVTs of the DB have been sold to the east german DR in 1959.

You see, this is just a mess and we´ll have to find the best possible solution for the game, so I´m still thinking and open for suggestions

regards
Michael

[michael blunck]

After lots of discussion, here´s some more information from the DBXL redesign shop:

- the SVT-137 and VT-137:

There was still sort of a mess in DBXL v0.82, because there was no real difference between SVTs and VTs, both with repect to its name and usability. SVTs were high-speed premium class DMUs and VT-137s were used for regional services. And as discussed here, there were quite different configurations.

Now, to settle things in a playable way, I made the SVT a two-part DMU (of type "Hamburg") and you may link another one to it, resulting in a four-unit DMU carrying 152 passengers, but no mail. In DBXL terminology, this is a first-class, long-distance train.

Originally, the SVTs came in the special cream/violet DRG Express livery, then, since 1950 carry the blue livery of the DB´s "F" (express) trains (although those of type "Hamburg" never did, sorry ...) and at last will be in the usual DB "old red" livery of all diesel units.



Now you´ll be able to set up a real "F-train" network from BR01s (steam), BR110s (electric) and SVT-137s (diesel).


OTOH, the newly featured VT-137 type "Ruhr" is a 3-unit DMU with the possibility to link another one, resulting into 6 units carrying 276 passengers. Originally, and in the DBXL, this one is under the "S-Bahn" commuter scheme, i.e. it´s a fast loading/unloading local train but it doesn´t carry mail too.

The VT-137 will be first in the usual DRG cream/red livery for rail cars and later change to DB livery.




- BR110 et al.:

IMO, the BR110 is the DB engine with the most complicated history, so it had never been easy understandable in the DB Set either. Especially, its evolution from 110 -> 112 -> 114 -> 110 couldn´t be implemented in any way because of certain limitations of TTDPatch.

For v0.9, I´ve made the 110 and the (newly featured) 112 two different vehicles. Problems with the existing 112 (this one is the originally east german 212) will be dealt with by replacing that engine with the 143 (also with east german origin).

Now, the 110 will come in only three liveries: steel blue until 1974, then cream/ocean-blue until 1986 and then in the usual orient-red resp. traffic-red.



In 1962, the BR112 is introduced for the Rheingold-II and TEE trains, and consequently it´s in those special Rheingold-II and TEE liveries. Even after its removal from premium services, it stays in its cream/red TEE livery until painted in the usual traffic-red only in 1992.




- BR111:

I further redesigned this engine, and the "S-Bahn" version now looks really good (IMO). I also introduced the special "Lufthansa Airline" livery (grey/yellow) for this engine during the time frame of 1987 - 1996. Such trains were running for the german airline "Lufthansa" connecting the airports of Frankfurt and Stuttgart.



As usual, choice is by "refitting" either local (-> S-Bahn) or long-distance coaches (-> Lufthansa) with the engine changing livery as well.


More to come ...

regards
Michael

[Raichase]

Some fantastic stuff as usual, Michael .

[Georg]

[DB InterCity services]

Second-class-service was introduced to some of the German "InterCity"-trains in 1976 and to all of them in 1978.

Under the auspicies of that "IC '79 programme"? ("Jede Stunde, jede Klasse")?

Basically yes, although the "79" is a bit misleading, as second class-service had been introduced gradually since 1976 and hourly InterCity-service actually started in 1978 on the main part of one of the (then) four lines. 1979 was merely the year when these standards were applied to all lines.

What kind of coaches have been used before the introduction of newly built Eurofima coaches ("Bpmz", in oceanblue/cream) since 1979/80? "Bm"s in "F-blue"? Or something other in oceanblue/cream?

Usually Bm in oceanblue/cream, which were a common sight in InterCity-trains up to the late 80ies. Also, sometimes Bm in the so called "Pop-Colours" (an experimental and short-lived livery) were used. "F-green"-coaches ("F-blue" would've been first class), on the other hand, were very rare in InterCity-trains.

And what kind of second-class IC coaches have been used after the oceanblue/cream era ended? All red/white like first class?

Yes, first and second class-coaches share the same livery since then.

(BTW: While I do understand the reasoning behind this - corporate identity - I, for myself, would've liked some sort of distinction. Maybe something like the French "Corail"-livery, where the colour of the doors indicates whether the particular coach is first or second class.)

[Georg]

the (newly featured) 112

Very nice!

Problems with the existing 112 (this one is the originally east german 212) will be dealt with by replacing that engine with the 143 (also with east german origin).

Which will appear earlier than the present 112? DR 243 (which became DB 143) were built between Fall 1984 and early 1991. DR 212/DB 112, which are very simular to the 243/143, were built from late 1990 to May 1994.

(Some trivia: As the 143 are rather slow, reaching 120 km/h max, DB plans to modificate some of the 143 to top speeds of 140 or 160 km/h. Basically, they want to convert 143 to 112.)

I also introduced the special "Lufthansa Airline" livery (grey/yellow)

Nice

[zero1000]

the new version of the 112 looks very very good!!!

about the SVTs and VTs 137, i think your compromise about the type is ok for the game...

[SAC]

Not sure if he, MB, wants to have questions about issues posted here, but if not, let me know where to have them!

With that said, I seem to have some issues with some of the locos refusing to pull freight wagons. BR103 being one of them I can buy as normal but it won't allow me to attach an additional engine, let alone totally refusing to have freight cars attached!

If I try to attach an additional loco the red bar appear saying; "Can't move vehicle. Long distance car required"

If I try to attach a freight car the red bar appears saying; "Can't move vehicle. Freight car cannot be attached"

I know for a fact that I've had two BR103 pulling heavy iron ore trains or oil, but all of a sudden this isn't possible. The issue itself isn't isolated to the BR103 alone either!

I'm using Beta9! Anyone else had this problem and knows how to solve it?

[lobster]

SAC^, t'is a feature. apparently the BR103 isn't meant to be used as freight or local passenger engine, and thus not usable as one. the fact that you used to be able to use it for anything, is merely because it was recently implemented or you had an older grf version. it's realism, 'innit?

[SAC]

Are you sure?

The version I'm using, DBSetXL v0.82, is the exact same version I used the last time I played the game, and it didn't provide me with this problem at all!

As you can see from the screen attached below I'm not telling any fairy tales;



Is it the patch itself forcing realism to be? Cause if it is, does anyone know of a way to let me as a player decide which loco pulls what, when, and where?