Mini Integrated Nightly [discontinued 31/12/2006]

mart3p · Post by **mart3p** » 18 Jul 2006 23:49

comrade-max wrote:sorry you dont know how long ive bin waitin fo it, it takes away half of Lvs lookin stupid

Thalass wrote:mart3p: That is awesome! I love it!

Thanks guys.

But let’s post Drive-Through Road Stop stuff in this thread, rather than this getting OT.

s0cks · Post by **s0cks** » 19 Jul 2006 06:44

Hey guys. I "think" this is a bug in the latest nightly. I have played a fairly long and intensive game from 1950 to 2030.

I have built a station with 10 platforms. However, because I have a lot of trains, the number of passangers can't keep up with the number of trains and so trains have to wait to load. Obviously the trains load using FIFO algorithm.

However! It seems some trains stay in the station forever and never get their turn to load. So every year I will have 3 or 4 trains which have made no profit (minus figures) because they have been sat in a station for months.

Has anyone else had this problem?

gigajum · Post by **gigajum** » 19 Jul 2006 06:55

i looked at it, and could not really find a big problem, except for the track layout at the Fronbridge central station. OK if there are not enough passengers for all trains you've got to much of them, but you can set in the station settings that only 5 or 6 trains are allowed to load. So the trains with the longest waiting time at station leave if another train arrives and wants to load. To make sure and finally say it: The station settings have more priority then vehicle orders.
You also can set the trains only wait for 50% or less load until they leave.

s0cks · Post by **s0cks** » 19 Jul 2006 07:17

Ok, that sounds like a plan. Unfortuantly you have to leave it running for a year or two, so at the end of the year you get alerts to say a number of trains have made no profit.

In theory each train should get it's turn to load. Even if there are too many trains. So surely this is a bug?

gigajum · Post by **gigajum** » 19 Jul 2006 07:29

s0cks wrote:Ok, that sounds like a plan. Unfortuantly you have to leave it running for a year or two, so at the end of the year you get alerts to say a number of trains have made no profit.

In theory each train should get it's turn to load. Even if there are too many trains. So surely this is a bug?

Imo no, the time to get loaded is to short, i would call that a bug while creating the universe. If you have about 600 days per year it should work

. But the thing that keeps all from running smoothly is the track layout, try to create a roro station at Fronbridge central and you should have less problems with the trains (imo).

klogg · Post by **klogg** » 19 Jul 2006 07:33

I had the same problem once and was told
that FIFO only means that a train that started to load will finish
before another one starts.
But if there are more empty trains waiting the algorithm will
randomly pick one of them. With many empty trains thus it is possible
that a certain train will never be loaded.

The solution is (as said above) to not having many empty trains waiting
as this indicates that you business administration is improvable.

klogg

gigajum · Post by **gigajum** » 19 Jul 2006 07:40

klogg wrote: But if there are more empty trains waiting the algorithm will
randomly pick one of them. With many empty trains thus it is possible
that a certain train will never be loaded.

No, that is not correct, not if you turn fifo loading on. All get loaded, but the time between arrival and they get loaded can be over 365 days or more so the alert window comes up and shows that a trains has negative income.

gigajum · Post by **gigajum** » 19 Jul 2006 07:53

ok i changed something and now all trains make some money

s0cks · Post by **s0cks** » 19 Jul 2006 08:21

gigajum wrote:ok i changed something and now all trains make some money

You are a legend. I like having non-roro cus it looks cooler

Even if it is grossly inefficient.

I still maintain that its a bug. Unless you manually tell the train to skip to the next "goto" location it will stay in the station forever and NEVER load.

gigajum · Post by **gigajum** » 19 Jul 2006 08:28

s0cks wrote:I still maintain that its a bug. Unless you manually tell the train to skip to the next "goto" location it will stay in the station forever and NEVER load.

Never is not right, it will get loaded, but it can take some time. The only way against such a behaviour is to send less trains to a station. That has nothing todo with the loading algorythm.

s0cks · Post by **s0cks** » 19 Jul 2006 09:17

Ok, thanks. I'll run some more tests. I appreciate the help!

SirkoZ · Post by **SirkoZ** » 19 Jul 2006 10:45

s0cks wrote:Hey guys. I "think" this is a bug in the latest nightly. I have played a fairly long and intensive game from 1950 to 2030.

I have built a station with 10 platforms. However, because I have a lot of trains, the number of passangers can't keep up with the number of trains and so trains have to wait to load. Obviously the trains load using FIFO algorithm.

However! It seems some trains stay in the station forever and never get their turn to load. So every year I will have 3 or 4 trains which have made no profit (minus figures) because they have been sat in a station for months.

Has anyone else had this problem?

I know you've written in the latest build, but please, with every savegame - always write down the version/revision of the build.

meowsqueak · Post by **meowsqueak** » 19 Jul 2006 10:52

SirkoZ wrote:I know you've written in the latest build, but please, with every savegame - always write down the version/revision of the build.

Much like this?
http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=26138

SirkoZ · Post by **SirkoZ** » 19 Jul 2006 11:09

meowsqueak wrote:
SirkoZ wrote:I know you've written in the latest build, but please, with every savegame - always write down the version/revision of the build.
Much like this?
http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=26138

Indeed.
However - I think the Forum users should be responsible enough to mention the version without anything being said about it.

Dragula · Post by **Dragula** » 19 Jul 2006 11:29

Cheers, i've got some kind of integer-arithmetics problem with MiniIn-5476, related to %-unloading:

Train can take 150 crates of goods. Order list:
1) Station A: full load
2) Station B: 40% unload
3) Station C: half unload
4) Station D: full unload

Problem arises at station C: before unloading train has 90 crates of cargo, as it should (0+0+15+25+25+25). After unloading train has 45 crates in total cargo, but per-wagon load shows kinda weird thing: 0+0+65526+5+25+25. So, after unloading at station D, train profit is about 14 millions

Save game attached, look at Dragula Inc., trains 26 & 27.

richk67 · Post by **richk67** » 19 Jul 2006 11:37

s0cks wrote:Ok, that sounds like a plan. Unfortuantly you have to leave it running for a year or two, so at the end of the year you get alerts to say a number of trains have made no profit.

In theory each train should get it's turn to load. Even if there are too many trains. So surely this is a bug?

Err... just to chip in my thoughts...

If a train is spending that long waiting in station for a load, then a) you dont have enough catchment area to support that number of trains, or b) you have too many trains at the station.

Solution is either a) increase catchment area... not possible in this case. b) reduce number, or capacity of trains visiting station. Sometimes I find a station is not profitable with 8 carriage trains, but is fine with 6 carriage trains.

To me, it doesnt need a code solution, but a gameplay one.

gigajum · Post by **gigajum** » 19 Jul 2006 19:22

Dragula wrote:Cheers, i've got some kind of integer-arithmetics problem with MiniIn-5476, related to %-unloading:

Train can take 150 crates of goods. Order list:
1) Station A: full load
2) Station B: 40% unload
3) Station C: half unload
4) Station D: full unload

Problem arises at station C: before unloading train has 90 crates of cargo, as it should (0+0+15+25+25+25). After unloading train has 45 crates in total cargo, but per-wagon load shows kinda weird thing: 0+0+65526+5+25+25. So, after unloading at station D, train profit is about 14 millions

Save game attached, look at Dragula Inc., trains 26 & 27.

Ok that looks like a bug.

gigajum · Post by **gigajum** » 19 Jul 2006 20:38

OK was a typo bug

sorry
it used the waggon capacity instead of the loading count.

s0cks · Post by **s0cks** » 19 Jul 2006 21:07

Ok, well I did a few more tests.

Right, say you have a station with 4 platforms. But you have 8 trains (train A through H).

Train A - D sit and load at the station using the FIFO algorithm. However, as I said, train C appears to get "stuck" and sits at 0% load. As train A, B, and D leave, trains E through H start to load and for some reason these are allowed to load up BEFORE train C (and the cycle continues).

The only way train C will ever load, is if there are no other trains in the station. So, to the human eye, it looks like train C has been magically shifted to a FILO algorithm!

There are ways round it, as have been stated, so it isn't a huge problem. But it isn't something I've noticed in past releases.

Also, I've noticed AI have started building stations which connect to a depot as the endpoint. So in other words the train just goes between the depot and the station.... or has this already been mentioned?

s0cks · Post by **s0cks** » 19 Jul 2006 21:22

And another bug!!

If you build a new train type to replace an old train then you will want it to have the same "goto" commands. If the old and new train is in the same depot you should be able to click "GoTo" on the new train and then click on the old train in the depot screen. This will copy the goto instructions.

But it doesn't work!!

The only way to copy a trains goto commands is by clicking on it if it is outside of a depot.

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