Extended Cargo Scheme (ECS) discussion

[George]

are you not allowed to use michael blunks graphics or why do you not use his fish grounds

I'm not allowed to use his new cargos graphics

[goalie]

are you not allowed to use michael blunks graphics or why do you not use his fish grounds

I'm not allowed to use his new cargos graphics

ok
i thought you two work together on ecs

[George]

are you not allowed to use michael blunks graphics or why do you not use his fish grounds

I'm not allowed to use his new cargos graphics

ok
i thought you two work together on ecs

yes, we do. But the copyright question is still open. Michael don't like the idea to use other copyright rules, than used for his set. So, we didn't come to a solution yet. Until we find a solution, I will post ECS without his graphics.

[George]

With the help of prissi, MHz and Raven I've put in graphics for fast all the new ECS industries.

http://george.zernebok.net/download/dev ... /05012006/

[wallyweb]

Graphics look good.
Temperate needs a building set that accepts food for towns.
Also in Temperate, train sets need refrigerated wagons to refit to food. Maybe they should do the same for all train wagons as for your trucks ... "Refit to all except passengers"

Question ... When creating a scenario, I like to place industries, so, what are the restrictions on placing Construction, Large Construction, Textile Mill, Brewery and Power Plant? I notice that these all have to be built in a town, but how far from the town's center tile?

How about a readme file that instructs in what order to place the grf's in newgrf.cfg?

[George]

Question ... When creating a scenario, I like to place industries, so, what are the restrictions on placing Construction, Large Construction, Textile Mill, Brewery and Power Plant? I notice that these all have to be built in a town, but how far from the town's center tile?

Brewery - 6 tiles. other have prop 1A = 20 00 00 00 I do not know how much is it for TTD. May be Josef or Csaba knows

How about a readme file that instructs in what order to place the grf's in newgrf.cfg?

Town vector should be the first, other does not metter ... But it does not work I do not know why. This order works
ECSTownw.grf
ECSBasicw.grf
ECSBasArw.grf
ECSBasTrw.grf
ECSChemw.grf
ECSMachw.grf
ECSMacTrw.grf
ECSWoodw.grf
ECSConstw.grf
ECSAgriw.grf

[wallyweb]

Brewery - 6 tiles. other have prop 1A = 20 00 00 00 I do not know how much is it for TTD. May be Josef or Csaba knows?

- Ok - I will experiment, but probably 6 as well.

Town vector should be the first, other does not metter ... But it does not work I do not know why. This order works
ECSTownw.grf
ECSBasicw.grf
ECSBasArw.grf
ECSBasTrw.grf
ECSChemw.grf
ECSMachw.grf
ECSMacTrw.grf
ECSWoodw.grf
ECSConstw.grf
ECSAgriw.grf

Thanks ... Also I noticed that the unused Basics must be dissabled and the ECS grf's must be loaded before any other grf's.

BUG REPORT
I found a Bug ... Set up ECS but no train sets ... just the TTDX default trains and wagons ... The Food Van carries paper and it is refittable to fish and it does not carry food ... The Paper wagon carries food and is not refittable. I am seeing similar problems when I load a train set.

SUGGESTION
#1. Fishing grounds graphic ... how about a picture of a fish?
#2. How about a Fish Farm as in aquaculture?

[George]

Thanks ... Also I noticed that the unused Basics must be dissabled and the ECS grf's must be loaded before any other grf's.

Why? You'll not be allowed to load two basic vectors in a time
And the order does not matter

BUG REPORT
I found a Bug ... Set up ECS but no train sets ... just the TTDX default trains and wagons ... The Food Van carries paper and it is refittable to fish and it does not carry food ... The Paper wagon carries food and is not refittable. I am seeing similar problems when I load a train set.

Fixed

SUGGESTION
#1. Fishing grounds graphic ... how about a picture of a fish?

Where?

#2. How about a Fish Farm as in aquaculture?

How should it look like?

[wallyweb]

Thanks ... Also I noticed that the unused Basics must be dissabled and the ECS grf's must be loaded before any other grf's.

Why? You'll not be allowed to load two basic vectors in a time
And the order does not matter.

Except I get an error and the subsequent valid ECS grf's do not load.

BUG REPORT
I found a Bug ... Set up ECS but no train sets ... just the TTDX default trains and wagons ... The Food Van carries paper and it is refittable to fish and it does not carry food ... The Paper wagon carries food and is not refittable. I am seeing similar problems when I load a train set.

Fixed

Thanks

SUGGESTION
#1. Fishing grounds graphic ... how about a picture of a fish?

Where?

On a water tile just like Michael's seagulls.

#2. How about a Fish Farm as in aquaculture?

How should it look like?

Here are some pictures: http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/sep2002 ... -13-04.asp

[George]

Thanks ... Also I noticed that the unused Basics must be dissabled and the ECS grf's must be loaded before any other grf's.

Why? You'll not be allowed to load two basic vectors in a time
And the order does not matter.

Except I get an error and the subsequent valid ECS grf's do not load.

Fixed

SUGGESTION
#1. Fishing grounds graphic ... how about a picture of a fish?

Where?

On a water tile just like Michael's seagulls.

Thoose small and black?

#2. How about a Fish Farm as in aquaculture?

How should it look like?

Here are some pictures:

I'll think about it. Should they be near see shore?

[wallyweb]

Why? You'll not be allowed to load two basic vectors in a time
And the order does not matter.

Except I get an error and the subsequent valid ECS grf's do not load.

Fixed

Another Thanks

Where?

On a water tile just like Michael's seagulls.

Thoose small and black?

You mean like sardines and anchovies? How about big like a tuna?

How should it look like?

Here are some pictures:

I'll think about it. Should they be near see shore?

Usually they are near the shore ... if they were out at sea they could be damaged by large waves.

[JDK2005]

OK, I'm confused by this, I want to have tourists, so what files do I need? The newcargospetroltouristsw.grf gives me the statues and hotels etc, but LV4w.grf doesn't recognise tourists as an availabe cargo, If I then have all the ECS files in the newgrfw.cfg, then LV4w.grf notices that tourists are available so I can build coaches, but the hotels and statues aren't there either. So what combination of files (and in what order) should I have to allow me to build coaches and have hotels?

[George]

OK, I'm confused by this, I want to have tourists, so what files do I need? The newcargospetroltouristsw.grf gives me the statues and hotels etc, but LV4w.grf doesn't recognise tourists as an availabe cargo, If I then have all the ECS files in the newgrfw.cfg, then LV4w.grf notices that tourists are available so I can build coaches, but the hotels and statues aren't there either. So what combination of files (and in what order) should I have to allow me to build coaches and have hotels?

TTRS3 (should be taken with LV4)

[George]

Thoose small and black?

You mean like sardines and anchovies? How about big like a tuna?

I suppose they would not look fine. I'll add it todo list, but I do not know when I should do it.

I'll think about it. Should they be near see shore?

Usually they are near the shore ... if they were out at sea they could be damaged by large waves.

I'm not sure that is possible to code the industry to have different layout depending on location. I do not know, how do the TTD makes a desision. Does it select the layout first, and then chooses the location, or chooses the location and picks up the layout.

[DaleStan]

Once a location is selected, a layout is randomly selected. After this happens, the industry and industry tile props are checked, and callbacks 28 and 2F are called. (Not necessarily in that order, but the order is not really significant.)

[wallyweb]

BUG REPORT
I found a Bug ... Set up ECS but no train sets ... just the TTDX default trains and wagons ... The Food Van carries paper and it is refittable to fish and it does not carry food ... The Paper wagon carries food and is not refittable. I am seeing similar problems when I load a train set.

Fixed

George ... I can't find the fixed files ... where can I download them?
Your link (above) only gives files up to Jan 5, 2006 and none more recent.

[George]

BUG REPORT
I found a Bug ... Set up ECS but no train sets ... just the TTDX default trains and wagons ... The Food Van carries paper and it is refittable to fish and it does not carry food ... The Paper wagon carries food and is not refittable. I am seeing similar problems when I load a train set.

Fixed

George ... I can't find the fixed files ... where can I download them?
Your link (above) only gives files up to Jan 5, 2006 and none more recent.

Not uploaded yet. I've broken something somewhere and it leads to random crashes, but I can't find what and where. Unless I can upload a stable version, I'll wait with uploading

[George]

Once a location is selected, a layout is randomly selected. After this happens, the industry and industry tile props are checked, and callbacks 28 and 2F are called. (Not necessarily in that order, but the order is not really significant.)

and how often do TTD has to try to choose locations randomly, to get so much success with oil rigs, industries in mountains and so on? In most cases it should fail
Think about brewery. In most places it is failed to be build, but they do appear duiring game... Or do the game try to build the industry again in case of the first try is not successful?

[michael blunck]

and how often do TTD has to try to choose locations randomly, to get so much success with oil rigs, industries in mountains and so on?

AFAIR, during random map generation TTD tries 200 random positions/layouts before giving up building a chosen type.

regards
Michael

[George]

In the beginning of the ECS discussion there was a suggestion to set non-zero production for secondary industries. Expanding this idea I've tried (test the furniture factory in transparent mode) to code and want to suggest now the new schema of cargo generation by secondary industries. It is based on production callback and callback 35 (you need alpha 70 pre 1 to test it; it can be found on Csaboka's site http://www.users.tt-forums.net/csaboka/ ... prea70.zip ).
So, the industry produces something every 256 tics (8 or nine times a month). If it has no cargo waiting, it produces 1 or 2 units of cargo. If some cargo is waiting, it is transformed into output cargo in some amount (for example, 20 units of income to 20 units of outcome cargos). For each of possible levels of production (40, 80, 10, 20, 40 and 80) amount is multiplied. If there is not enough income cargo for this operation, the industry produced the default amount (1 or 2 units).
Every month the industry "plans" the work for the month. If the amount of cargo waiting is 3 times more, than the industry can use during a month, the production is doubled.
If the production last month is less, than 1/4 of average (that means 5 of 8/9 times a month there was not enough cargo to process for the current level of production), the production for the next month is halved.
The industry can't increase the production of less than 50% cargo transported last month.

Suggestions?

Test the wood vector and furniture fabric and report your opinion, please

http://george.zernebok.net/download/dev ... /16012006/