North American Industries

lifeblood · Post by **lifeblood** » 27 Aug 2005 00:02

ORIGINAL POST:
Any interest in a North American industry set?

The new industries being drawn by George, Born Acorn, and MB are all great, but the artwork doesn't mesh well with North American scenerios.
Therefore, I think a new, coherent industry set is in order so that the Canadian, US, and North American Renewal sets can carry cargos that are realistically North American.

Things that could be included:
automotive components plant
automotive assembly plant
cannary for fish
meat paking plant
mill/bakery for grains
manufacturing plant
plastics plant
tarsands - for arctic climate

plus redraws for all current industries

Good idea?

edited for orthography

ADDITIONS:
Here are the Temperate and Arctic Schemes:

wallyweb · Post by **wallyweb** » 27 Aug 2005 13:19

I like this! So, Good Idea? Yes!

Redrawing graphics to fit into the North American style is good.

Re your canery for fish, the meat packing plant and the bakery, all good ideas, but the food processing plant already covers these, so keep this in mind as a default to fall back upon if you run out of slots for new industries.

MB's fishery and beer are keepers for sure.

Also, North Americanization of George's tourist and petrol implementations.

I like that Tarsands suggestion.

Add cotton for the US and nickle and potash for Canada.

(Now to get George to move on adding more NA rv's to his sets)

Axlrose · Post by **Axlrose** » 27 Aug 2005 18:55

A North American industry set would be easy to create. Just have some abandoned buildings, closed offices, ruined farm lands, slabs of payment with weeds growing through the cracks, or a combination of them all with another plain building with people outside waiting for unemployment checks or lining up to work at McDonald's as the Fry Guy.

While I mean to be sarcastic, it does hold some truth too, unfortunately.
>>>>>Axlrose - ...<<<<<

DanMacK · Post by **DanMacK** » 27 Aug 2005 19:33

That would work for Pittsburgh or any other steel mill town

lifeblood · Post by **lifeblood** » 27 Aug 2005 20:37

axl: it is possible to have the buildings change appearence over the years, so maybe the post industrial era the industries can become a rust belt.

Wally, my main concern is goods production, taking iron to the mill, then taking steel to the factory, and then goods to town is just too simple. Instead, iron to the mill, steel to the components plant, components to the assembly plant, along with some steel for car panels, along with plastic from a plastics plant (that takes chemicals from the refinary) would be much better as it calls for different train sizes, more thought into network design, and ofcourse, more trains.

Tarsands make up for the lack of oil platforms in the arctic. I like the nickle and potash ideas too, steel production would be more realistic.

I've yet to play a game with tourists, so I don't know how they work, but including CP/CN hotels would be killer.

I'm not too concerned with US industries/tropics at this point...

wallyweb · Post by **wallyweb** » 27 Aug 2005 22:38

lifeblood wrote:Wally, my main concern is goods production, taking iron to the mill, then taking steel to the factory, and then goods to town is just too simple. Instead, iron to the mill, steel to the components plant, components to the assembly plant, along with some steel for car panels, along with plastic from a plastics plant (that takes chemicals from the refinary) would be much better as it calls for different train sizes, more thought into network design, and ofcourse, more trains.

Expanding the heavy industry sector does seem appropriate.
Three inputs to a stell mill: coal. iron and nickle
Two outputs from a steel mill: rolled steel and stainless steel with lower output on the stainless.

Another Canadian heavy industry ... aluminium ... big power consumer so it would be neet if a smelter could only be built within a certain tile spread from a power station.

George's tourists are currently produced by a toy store (don't ask) and are delivered to tourist sites such as hotels and statues. Csaboka has confirmed that since patch57, tourist sites can be made to both accept and deliver tourists as is the case with temperate banks and valuables. That poor toy store (Toys'R'Us?) is sure going to miss the added business.

George · Post by **George** » 27 Aug 2005 22:47

wallyweb wrote:George's tourists are currently produced by a toy store (don't ask) and are delivered to tourist sites such as hotels and statues. Csaboka has confirmed that since patch57, tourist sites can be made to both accept and deliver tourists as is the case with temperate banks and valuables. That poor toy store (Toys'R'Us?) is sure going to miss the added business.

I'm trying to make new callback work. Wait a day or two.

lifeblood · Post by **lifeblood** » 28 Aug 2005 22:01

Here is my working scheme:

*denotes a cargo or industry with id's not yet created
(A) denotes a cargo or industry that is arctic only
(T) denotes a cargo or industry that is temperate only

(I apologize; it's not oranized in the best of fashion)

Industries

Primary:
forest - wood
oil wells - oil
oil rig (T) - oil
coal mine - coal
iron mine - iron ore
gold mine (A) - gold
farm - grain, livestock
orchard (T) – fruit, food (plantation from tropics)
fishery - fish
*nickel mine - nickel
*tarsands (A) - oil

Secondary:
bank (A)
steel mill - steel
power plant
saw mill - pulp, lumber
refinery - petrol, chemicals
food processing plant - food
*cannery - food
*meat packing plant - food
*bake house – food
brewery - beer

Tertiary:
factory - goods
paper mill - paper
*plastics plant (T) - plastics
*piece goods plant (T) - piece goods

Quaternary:
print house - goods
*automotive assembly plant (T) - goods
*manufacturing plant (T) - goods

Special: (produce & receive same cargo)
banks (T) - valuables
hotels - tourists

Cargos

wood - accepted by saw mill
oil - accepted by refinery
coal - accepted by steel mill, power plant
iron - accepted by steel mill
gold - accepted by bank (A)
livestock - accepted by meat packing plant,
grain - accepted by bake house, food processing plant, and brewery
fruit - accepted by food processing plant
fish - accepted by cannery,
*nickel - accepted by steel mill

steel - accepted by factory, piece goods plant, automotive assembly plant, cannery
food - goes to towns
petrol - goes to towns
beer - goes to towns
*chemicals - accepted by plastics plant, automotive assembly plant
*pulp - accepted by paper mill
*lumber - accepted by factory

paper - accepted by bake house, meat packing plant, food processing plant, factory, print house
*plastics - accepted by automotive assembly plant, manufacturing plant, piece goods plant
*piece goods - accepted by automotive assembly plant, manufacturing plant

goods - go to town

valuables - accepted by banks (T)
tourists - accepted by hotels

feed back? Keep in mind we're limited to 37 industries per climate, and each industry can only accept 3 items, and produce 2. Also, I'm not sure of the limit of cargo numbers.

wallyweb · Post by **wallyweb** » 28 Aug 2005 22:39

Good start Lifeblood.
Check my post here where you might find some ideas to help keep things organized.

Keep aluminium in mind if room permits. The raw material is bauxite.

lifeblood · Post by **lifeblood** » 28 Aug 2005 23:49

Hmm, well thanks for that link Wally, I rarely venture out of the graphics/suggestions forums and I missed that entire discussion. Well, as of now, ignore my scheme above - I'm going to simplify the list quite extensively. Aluminum - no chance now, sorry. Nickel is out too. Bakehouse & meat plant will be combined. And the cuts don't end there!

The emphisis will be on building appearence, not complex North American logistics...

*throws in favorite response*

Maybe one day in Open TT...

wallyweb · Post by **wallyweb** » 29 Aug 2005 00:09

lifeblood wrote:Hmm, well thanks for that link Wally, I rarely venture out of the graphics/suggestions forums and I missed that entire discussion. Well, as of now, ignore my scheme above - I'm going to simplify the list quite extensively. Aluminum - no chance now, sorry. Nickel is out too. Bakehouse & meat plant will be combined. And the cuts don't end there!

The emphisis will be on building appearence, not complex North American logistics...

*throws in favorite response*

Maybe one day in Open TT...

Oooh noooo! You've burned up all 37 slots already?

Actually I like your thought on building appearance.
Waiting to see where you're going to go with this.

lifeblood · Post by **lifeblood** » 29 Aug 2005 00:36

Not even close - but I read the other topic, and I got the general impression that a less complicated the industry scheme, would be more playable, and probably easier to code, and easier to draw! I'll come up with a new scheme tomorrow with ~20 industries per climate. I'd love to have scores of industries, but its TT does have its limitations.

Maybe an Irving industry scheme would be good for the arctic climate?

wallyweb · Post by **wallyweb** » 29 Aug 2005 06:15

lifeblood wrote:Not even close - but I read the other topic, and I got the general impression that a less complicated the industry scheme, would be more playable, and probably easier to code, and easier to draw! I'll come up with a new scheme tomorrow with ~20 industries per climate. I'd love to have scores of industries, but its TT does have its limitations.

heh ... when I said "complicated" in that post, I meant that people were throwing out ideas right and left, seemingly without thought or description. You should read some of the other posts in that thread.
In your posts in this thread, I get the impression that you have a good idea as to what you are looking for and you have a handle on working through an industry's vector. What I was trying to do over there was get people to think through the vectors.
Of course, here, I was the first one to break my own rule by suggesting aliminium without even mentioning the source material until a subsequent post.

lifeblood wrote:Maybe an Irving industry scheme would be good for the arctic climate?

Actually, you're not far off on that ... the Irving's industries pretty well cover the Canadian scene, but not all of it, and ttdx already has their interests covered: forestry, oil and food. A Canadian Industry set would and should have more than that. You've made an excellent start.

Now, (as an example only

) here's my aluminium industry suggestion, properly laid out:

Source: mine Input: none Output: bauxite Transported to: Smelter
Primary: smelter Input: bauxite Output: aluminium Transported to: goods factory
Secondary: goods factory Input: aluminium Output: 1. goods 2. airplane parts Transported to: 1. town building 2. airplane factory
Tertiary: aiplane factory Input: airplane parts Output: goods(airplanes) Transported to: airline building
End User: airline building Input: airplanes Output: none Transported to: n/a
End User: town building Input: goods Output: none Transported to: n/a
Note 1: town buildings do have outputs, but none related to this vector.
Note 2: smelters should be restricted to tiles near power stations
Note 3: airline buildings should be restricted to airport catchment areas.

Now you can see at a glance the overall vector and whether or not it fits into the scheme or perhaps it needs to be adjusted/tweeked/revised or even dropped altogether.

This was the part of my post that I was hoping you'd find usefull.

DanMacK · Post by **DanMacK** » 29 Aug 2005 06:24

Not a bad idea you've got going here guys

I'm all for the Nickel mining (and Bauxite... Roberval & Sagunay anyone?) I'd definitely like to see the Iron ore =>Steel Mill =>Factory setup in arctic. ONR and Cartier units will look outta place hauling iron ore in a temperate environment

lifeblood · Post by **lifeblood** » 29 Aug 2005 14:08

My new idea is to have the temperate industries focused on the production of goods - such as the industries in the Windsor-Quebec City corridor, and the arctic industries focused more on the production of raw materials - what you'd find in 'the north.' Rightnow I have only the temp. scheme, we should get this finalized before we start on the arctic - however I do agree with Dan about steel production in the arctic, as well as aluminum, pulp & paper etc... but I'm getting ahead of myself.

I still think keeping a smaller number of industries would be better, for now atleast - we can always come back later and add new branches.

I'm still a little confused about tourists though - what kind of coaches do they travel in? For now I have them labled as passengers on my scheme below, this can/will change when I fully grasp the concept of tourists.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 29 Aug 2005 19:26

I'd always intended for the US set to have a complete new buildings set. One that evolves over time would be even better. Of course, right now the US set is a bit backed up with coding work, but if you are serious about US / North American industries and buildings, that's great! I would think Canada could mostly share, with some dedicated industries / buildings (Timmys!).

Snail · Post by **Snail** » 29 Aug 2005 19:35

Great ideas guys! I really like how the things are evolving here. Eventually the FRSet will have something similar, but time will pass before it's released (hopefully our tables will be up again soon!)

Just one suggestion: why not making Auto plants produce Cars instead of plain goods? We could have the car dealership industry built in towns of a certain size, which could accept cars as final product (more rewarding than goods).

lifeblood · Post by **lifeblood** » 30 Aug 2005 00:50

kr, that's something I have already considered - 2 eras of industries, one from 1921-1960s, then 1960s - present, a later stage can be added at a later date, but I think for now 2 eras is most manageable. And my intention was for an industries set that would work with both North American sets - the only Canadian specific buildings would be the hotels. A NA building replacement set is certainly something to consider and I'd be willing to draw for, but I'd say after the industries, as industries are more important to game play.

Snail, the problem with an auto factory producing cars is that then there's only certain buildings in the town that would accept cars, which are liable to move about, thus you'd be forever chasing dealerships with train stations so you have somewhere to unload cars. Maybe with an NA town set though, but then I'm getting ahead of myself. Good idea though, I don't want to sound like I'm shooting down ideas here...

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 30 Aug 2005 01:04

Can't you reprogram things so that office buildings and flats also accept Cars? I mean, the same things as already accept Goods.

Snail · Post by **Snail** » 30 Aug 2005 01:10

krtaylor wrote:Can't you reprogram things so that office buildings and flats also accept Cars? I mean, the same things as already accept Goods.

That'd be a good idea. I think buildings can accept only up to three types of cargo: but we could introduce some types of offices which accept passengers, goods and cars instead of passengers, mail and goods (mail is already accepted by lots of town buildings), in addition to the car dealership. These offices could accept 2/8 cars and dealerships 6/8, or even 8/8.

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