Bundesbahn set [Planning & pasting - 2,13% done]

[fire87]

Purno: Maybe try to delete the _604 behind the name, and then open it

[Purno]

that works... I didn't know WinZip looked at extensions that picky...

[OzTrans]

Saskia: Can you change the topic title to : 'Deutsche Bahn' Trainset (xx.x% completed), at least until someone comes up with a better idea. Maybe you could also remove the poll, I don't think it's needed anymore.

[Spaceball]

Bevore there won't be any progress I started Metropolitan Coaches. These Coaches are luxury coaches for the Hamburg - Berlin Line.

I used my Chinook for the Metropolitan so the size might not fit.

cu, Spaceball

[krtaylor]

My thoughts are that I do think these disputes could be handled with more courtesy and fewer threats, from both sides. If we speak rationally, usually we get a rational response; if we speak angrily, usually we get an angry response. "A soft answer turneth away wrath." I don't think anyone here really honestly doesn't care about stealing someone else's work.

[Saskia]

Yeppa ...

@Spaceball: They look good! If you need a template for passenger cars, just use one of the existing ones (in this thread)

[Purno]

Wouldn't it be a good idea to put up a full vehicle list (including pictures) and a tracking table at our website?

[krtaylor]

It might also be a good idea to post there an explanation of how your set will differ from MB's DB set. And NO, I'm not talking about copyrights, I mean, what trains will be different, and why.

[OzTrans]

Wouldn't it be a good idea to put up a full vehicle list (including pictures) and a tracking table at our website?

I am working on the vehicle list ATM. I'm not so sure about pictures, maybe thumbnails. The list will include Saskia's vehicles, the ones a few of you have nominated once as preference. There will be a few I'd like to see. The list will then be up for discussion.

It might also be a good idea to post there an explanation of how your set will differ from MB's DB set. And NO, I'm not talking about copyrights, I mean, what trains will be different, and why.

Good idea ... I will work on that, there will be a lot of difference.

[Spaceball]

I have finished the Metropolitan Coaches. I will now go on with the engine. I think there are two different engines or there is a special coach at the end of the train. They use normal DB engines and the Metropolitan is also like a EMU. I will draw both. Does anyone know the difference? I live in Munich, thats far away from the Metropolitan.

EDIT: The Metropolitan was active from 1996 until 2004. It was only used between Cologne and Hamburg.

cu, Spaceball

[OzTrans]

That metropolitan looks good. We will be looking for S-Bahn 'Push-Pull' Trains, that use 'normal' locomotives in comparision to the now more common EMU's with motorised wagons and driving trailers. Keep up the good work.

[Spaceball]

@OzTransLtd

The Munich S-Bahn have always been EMUs. I think the S-Bahn with a normal engine has only been used in Hannover and maybe some other cities. Purno has drawn the S-Bahn 420 EMUs that has been used in Munich.

cu, Spaceball

[Uwe]

I think there are two different engines or there is a special coach at the end of the train. They use normal DB engines and the Metropolitan is also like a EMU. I will draw both. Does anyone know the difference? I live in Munich, thats far away from the Metropolitan.

See http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/car ... n/pix.html for pictures of the leading car. The engine on the other end was a normal BR 101, but repainted in Metropolitan colors, pictures can be found at http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/ele ... n/pix.html

Greets,
Uwe

[Saskia]

... We will be looking for S-Bahn 'Push-Pull' Trains ...

They have been already done

@Spaceball: Don't forget the Rhein-Main- and Ruhrgebiet

[Purno]

Wouldn't it be a good idea to put up a full vehicle list (including pictures) and a tracking table at our website?

I am working on the vehicle list ATM. I'm not so sure about pictures, maybe thumbnails. The list will include Saskia's vehicles, the ones a few of you have nominated once as preference. There will be a few I'd like to see. The list will then be up for discussion.

Thumbnails will be fine. Anyways, IIRC Saskia's list wasn't very big and needs lots and lots more. Since this set probably can't work with the DBSet we might need to include some DBSet engines too , which probably have to be redrawn too

[michael blunck]

Since this set probably can't work with the DBSet we might need to include some DBSet engines too , which probably have to be redrawn too

First thing needed for every vehicle set is a concept.

regards
Michael

[Spaceball]

The Metropolitan used a Br101. So I will draw it. I also will recolor it. Thats at least one Engine plus another Engine that is already drawn. I don't know the Name but its the one that has been used for the S-Bahn Service. It must somewere aroung Page 10 to 15.

@Michael

Yes I agree.

cu, Spaceball

[DanMacK]

Definitely, and that's where the tracking table comes in. You guys need to get that up and figure what you need that's already present and what you need that isn't.

[OzTrans]

A bit of patience please. I am working on the draft vehicle list ATM, will soon be ready for discussion. Once we have the vehicle list, then we can talk tracking table and determine what we already have and what needs to be developed.

Look at the following as a concept study:

I am not going to make comparisions between the 'Deutsche Bahn' Trainset and other existing trainsets; but the following should be a guide to what I would like to see and have implemented in the 'Deutsche Bahn' trainset. It should also be an alternative set compared to other existing trainsets to give the player a different playing experience :

- I would like to see an extensive range of international trains, that either originate from, are destined for or just transit Germany. They include among others:

. "EuroCity" Passenger-Trains pulled by german locomotives in a variety of international (from Austria, BeNeLux, France, Switzerland, Italy to name a few) wagon liveries, including 1st and 2nd class coaches, sleeper and dining cars. (in game: long distance passenger service, named "EuroCity").

. "Thalys" (TGV) Paris-Brussel-Amsterdam-Köln-Düsseldorf. "Cisalpino" (ETR470) Stuttgart-Zürich-Milano. (in game: long distance passenger EMU style trains).

. "CityNightLiners" Trains operating between Germany, Switzerland and Austria, providing overnight sleeping accommodation, eg Dortmund-Vienna, Hamburg-Zürich, Berlin-Zürich. (in game: long distance passenger service).

. "MotorRail" (DB AutoZug); overnight long distance passenger service, where passengers take their own motor vehicles with them on the train. (in game: long distance passenger service with sleeping accommodation and car carrying freight wagons both having cargo type 'Passengers', the first passenger train with loading states !).

. "Rolling Motorway" (HuPac Cargo) Trains; long distance Semi-Trailer Cargo Transport; that is a ro-ro cargo service, where entire trucks including prime mover are driven onto low flat bed wagons. During the journey the drivers will rest or sleep in the accompanying passenger or sleeping cars. This service operates mainly between Germany and Italy passing through Switzerland. (in game: locomotive plus 1 or 2 passenger wagons or sleeping cars plus low flat bed wagons with semi-trailers as cargo (goods). All wagons having cargo type 'Goods').

- Other 'Specialised' Trains:

. S-Bahn 'Push-Pull' Trains. Pulled/pushed by a 'normal' engine (not motorised wagon) with attached passenger coaches and driving trailer. (in game: 'Metropolitan' and 'InterRegio' passenger services pushed by a 'normal' engine, the engine will always be at the rear of the train).

. The 'TransRapid' as it actually exists in IRL and not as 'Science Fiction' models.

- Passenger and Freight Wagons :

. An extensive range of freight wagons with numerous styles and looks, the more variety the better. If there is a wagon, especially specialised ones, out there it should be included. (in game: refitting freight wagons for looks rather than cargo). For some examples see above.

. A base set of passenger wagons including: S-Bahn, InterRegio, InterCity.

. Specialised passenger/freight wagons to build specialised trains, such as 'Custom Trains', EMU's, "MotorRail" and "Rolling Motorway" services.

Other features of the Trainset:

- The trainset will of course feature german rolling stock, but anything that moves on rails in Germany will be considered.

- All the reasons why Saskia wanted to develop a trainset depicting german railway locomotives and wagons.

- Coding of a compatible seperate version for OTTD players, though with fewer features due to the current lack of 'Patch' features (eg callback support).

- Making the set compatible with temperate and arctic climates.

- Use of the latest 'Patch' features, bordering at the edge of all technical possibilities.

- The Vehicle Purchase List should give an indication what service a particular engine should be used for, eg Universal, Passenger, Heavy Freight etc.

- Inclusion of special "named" trains.

- Vehicles should be concentrated on Epoch 3/4 time frame. Although we, of course, will need a limited number of early/late model vehicles too, so that the game can be played from 1921 maybe 1930 or a bit later onwards.

- Have no time restriction applied to vehicle liveries; ie leave it to the player to choose the livery they like, even if it has been superceeded by a new livery. A vehicle will become available at a certain date with different liveries progressively introduced but the various liveries will then remain available until the expiration of the model (unless EnginesPersist=on). (in game: refit vehicle livery by the player).

- Unique approach to construction/purchase of custom trains; using seperate MU-Wagon in Purchase Window and 'Refitted Capacity' callback to start with. But also allowing the construction of various length trains; eg up to 6 layouts, say 6, 8, 10, 6+6, 8+8 and 10+10 if they exist in real life.

Trainset Development:

Cross Border Development of the various trainsets under construction; ie sharing and joint development of common vehicles among the various 'European' development teams. eg: the Swiss may develop and then share with us the "Cisalpino" ETR470 and we do likewise by developing "EuroCity" trains. The French come up with the "Thalys" and we will have one or two 'trains' for them.

There are other issues, but not significant to list them all.

BTW, if anything of the above seams to be impossible to implement, then NO is no answer, only if something has been proven to be impossible and really no other way can be found will we drop it or if nobody wants to have it.

A rather long post. I don't think I have listed everything, why we want to have the 'Deutsche Bahn' Trainset developed. If anybody has any suggestions or ideas, please feel free to air them. Any feedback will be most welcome and everything is up for discussion. BTW, the Swiss Set will be developed along similar lines, but of course with Swiss rolling stock.

[krtaylor]

If you have to redraw a lot of what MB has already drawn, is it really worth the effort? I mean, it seems to me that you could decide what of the DBXL set you want to still use, and leave those IDs alone, and then design your set so that if it's placed in the CFG file after the DBXL set, those particular locos will "show through" and not be overwritten, but you'll overwrite others. There is no copyright violation there since you will have absolutely nothing of MBs included in your set in any way; you will simply be designing your set so it's "compatible" with his.