2.0.1 alpha / 2.5 beta discussion

Rob · Post by **Rob** » 23 Dec 2004 14:45

reishinji wrote:I have a very confused problem
after i install alpha 42,my trains seems to slow down. example.

train31's speed is 165mph, i am using this train for carrying coals, after i bought the coal hopper, my train slow down to 50mph...

ermmm... i tried to look at the configurator, but i can't find anything.....so there is anyone out there knows how to fix t his problem, please imform me...please~~~~~~~~

Read all about the wagonspeedlimits switch

SHADOW-XIII · Post by **SHADOW-XIII** » 23 Dec 2004 21:02

reishinji wrote:I have a very confused problem
after i install alpha 42,my trains seems to slow down. example.

train31's speed is 165mph, i am using this train for carrying coals, after i bought the coal hopper, my train slow down to 50mph...

reading manual will help

and switch is called wagonspeedlimits

edit: oups I didn't noticed earlier reply

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 04 Jan 2005 00:27

I think this has been reported before, but I don't know if it's on the official buglist.

Refitting trains either doesn't work at all, or refits to the wrong thing, if there are other windows open when you do the refit. If you close all other windows, the refit works fine. This doesn't happen all the time, but pretty often.

goalie · Post by **goalie** » 05 Jan 2005 20:46

since alpha 40 the
new ship button
in the ships window is missing

SHADOW-XIII · Post by **SHADOW-XIII** » 06 Jan 2005 23:12

goalie wrote:since alpha 40 the
new ship button
in the ships window is missing

turn of some station graphics .. it was one of them that was broken and did that ... (and if not a station try other graphics, it is not Patch error)

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 07 Jan 2005 01:38

Poor Patchman must be feeling frustrated at all the bug-reports that've been collecting over his holiday!

hovering teacup · Post by **hovering teacup** » 09 Jan 2005 11:50

bizarre, this problem disappeared without doing anything for Win version...

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 09 Jan 2005 13:10

That's not really a bug, it's an aggravating side-effect of something about the PBS blocks. I'm still working with this problem. It has something to do with inappropriate junction design.

hovering teacup · Post by **hovering teacup** » 09 Jan 2005 13:42

no that's not a train collision but a game crash.

hovering teacup · Post by **hovering teacup** » 09 Jan 2005 15:49

the train-not-reversing in the PBS is doing mischieves...

since the PBS before a station makes station itself a PBS, trains in such a station at the end of line are desparately trying to jump off from the track. it obliges me to rip off a piece o' track and restore it one by one in order to allow them flip.

so either of following would be needed;
1) to treat as PBS only blocks framed in by PBS signals in all its ins and outs (ie. when determining PBS manually)
2) to allow player to turn off the "train-not-reversing in the PBS"

or any better ideas everyone ?

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 09 Jan 2005 19:12

A major help, would be if the depot's built-in signal worked with PBS (and presignals) properly - i.e. as a "sponge."

Patchman · Post by **Patchman** » 09 Jan 2005 19:37

Can you elaborate what you mean by "properly"?

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 09 Jan 2005 19:59

What I mean is, it's long been known that having a depot inside of a pre-signal block or PBS block can cause problems, because the pseudosignal that comes free (and invisible) with a depot doesn't really work well with the advanced signal types. Part of this is displayed in the behavior of depots as not being a valid pre-signal exit. If the depot pseudosignal could be treated as an advanced signal type, that problem would be solved. In addition, it would be useful if the depot could act as a "sponge," absorbing excess trains if there's a jam.

I've experimented with putting a signal in front of the depot entrance. That didn't work at all well with the pre-signal blocks. With PBS signal blocks, it actually works fine, as long as you don't encounter the situation of one train trying to get into the depot while another is trying to get out. You'll end up in an un-fixable jam, because the in and the out train will stare each other down at the depot-entry signal, neither able to turn around and get out of the way because of the PBS no-turning-around interlock.

I see three possible changes which might help:

1. Make the depot pseudosignal act like any other signal as far as being automatically turned into an advanced signal, or even manually changed somehow. This would probably give you the depot-sponge ability for free, since in a pre-signal block the depot pseudosignal would be a legitimate pre-signal exit (or a combo signal, actually.)

2. Make it so that if there is a signal of any type immediately in front of the depot, then that signal replaces the depot pseudosignal. That way, for normal usage, depots would work the way they always have, but in complex pre- and PBS signal situations, you can change how the signalling for the depot operates. I think this would also accomplish the depot-sponge thing.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 11 Jan 2005 03:13

OK, I've been continuing to play with the PBS signals, and I have some more thoughts.

1. I understand why you rigged it so that the trains cannot turn around when they're in the block. Is it possible to fix it so the train won't turn around when it's waiting to enter a PBS block? That causes problems when things jam up.

2. That said, I find it ABSOLUTELY INFURIATING that I cannot manually turn a train around when it jams up. I don't know how many times I've gotten a train totally stuck, so that there's no way to unsnarl it except to either bulldoze everything and make a special route to get it where it should go, or to intentionally cause a crash. That's no good. Can you make it so the train cannot turn itself around, but that you the player can manully press the "turn around" button and it'll work at all times, the way it always used to? Not being able to manually turn the trains around is galling in the extreme.

3. Last, and perhaps most important, is there some imaginable way to cause a PBS block reset? I mean, to release all the paths and remove the reversing restriction from all trains in or entering a particular block? Or at least, connected to a particular signal? Maybe by ALT-clicking the info tool on the signal or in the block? Oftentimes I could unsnarl things if only it would let me...

The PBS system has great potential and is a brilliant innovation, but I do think there are a couple of refinements that would help enormously.

Patchman · Post by **Patchman** » 11 Jan 2005 05:18

1. No, not really.
2. Yes, that's my plan for alpha 43.
3. Cht: ResetPBS, but that resets the whole map. Making that a local effect on the area where it's placed would really be quite complicated.

Raichase · Post by **Raichase** » 11 Jan 2005 06:51

Patchman wrote:3. Cht: ResetPBS, but that resets the whole map. Making that a local effect on the area where it's placed would really be quite complicated.

Could you use the method you used when you programmed the "cht: planttrees" cheat, or is that a completely different area definition?

Patchman · Post by **Patchman** » 11 Jan 2005 15:36

The problem is not so much finding the area, but rather identifying the signal block reliably.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 11 Jan 2005 15:47

Does it matter that the signal block be found 100% reliably? I know often you get multiple special blocks in order. A reset is kind of a blunt instrument anyway; when I use it, I wouldn't mind at all if several adjacent blocks all went normal, as long as it wasn't everything in the whole game.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » 11 Jan 2005 16:27

krtaylor wrote:2. That said, I find it ABSOLUTELY INFURIATING that I cannot manually turn a train around when it jams up. I don't know how many times I've gotten a train totally stuck, so that there's no way to unsnarl it except to either bulldoze everything and make a special route to get it where it should go, or to intentionally cause a crash. That's no good. Can you make it so the train cannot turn itself around, but that you the player can manully press the "turn around" button and it'll work at all times, the way it always used to? Not being able to manually turn the trains around is galling in the extreme.

I always delete the track and signal the trains is blocked at.
Then I build a depot there. The train wil enter the depot and I press the "ignore signal" button to get it out again.
After it has left the depot I delete it and rebuild the track and signal.

But it would be nice to know when a train gets blocked like this, that a newsmessage is reporting about it the moment the train gets blocked.
I mean you'll get the trainlost message, but then half your network is block already because it just takes to long for the message to appear..

Oracle · Post by **Oracle** » 12 Feb 2005 19:36

Josef, if you're thinking about making alpha 43, you might be interested in this apparent bug with wagonspeedlimits. The following pseudo-sprite does not give unlimited speed to the valuables car, which you would expect.

Code: Select all

   -1 * 60	 00 00 17 01 25 00 00 00 02 00 03 28 04 FF 06 07 07 03 05 00 08 00 09 FF FF 0B 00 00 0D 00 0E 00 00 00 00 12 FD 13 00 14 1E 15 0A 16 32 17 F3 1C 00 1D 00 00 00 00 1E 00 21 00 22 40

As far as I'm aware, 09 FF FF should give unlimited speed. Is it a bug or have I just made an oversight?

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