NEW DEFAULT TRAINSET

[Joker]

Several notes:
mdhowe said it exactly. That was what I was trying to say.
So let's agree that new graphics are necessary.

MeusH: It's possible that there will be more track types, but monorails will be removed. So check that out.

jabberwalkee_: Well, but consider the time it takes. Won't it end in a way that artists will finish drawing trains for the current system in the same time the coders finish making a new system?

[Colonel32]

I think we should just focus on the replacement of the current trains in here, not what will go on new tracks.

Having said that i think normal->ekectrified->maglev is the way to go (like the patch)

I'd prefer Normal, Electrified, Monorail

[Born Acorn]

monorail is unrealistic for a transport game. The only purpose it has is slow tourist transport.

Maglevs are a viable option and in use today in Shanghai.

[ThorRune]

1 - Normal Rail (what we have now, limit 160km/h on straights)
2 - Normal Rail with overhead wires. (Elrails)
3 - High Speed Rail (rail on a concrete foundation, up to 300 - 350km/h)
4 - Maglev / Monorail.
5 - Narrow Gauge (has two tracks in the main directions, instead of one)
6 - Trams (basically narrow gauge plus roads)
7 - Rack Railway (a third, toothed rail in the middle)

Well, bases on this, here comes a new list:

Normail rail:
4 steamers
4 diesels
4 DMUs (Front and back engines)

Electrified rails:
5 single-engine eltrains
4 DMUs

High speed rail (Can run on normal rail, but slowly):
2 steamers
4 diesels
4 DMUs

Monorail:
3 regular trains
3 DMUs

ManLev:
2 regular trains
5 DMUs

Narrow gauge:
4 steamers
4 diesels
2 DMUs

Trams:
5 trams

Rack railway:
5 rack railway trains, can run on regular rails


Can everyone agree with this so we can get going drawing?

<dominik81> ThorRune: we don't agree on unifying monorail and maglev.

So i split monorail and manglev

[MeusH]

So i split monorail and manglev

Very good. In fact both monorail and maglev are magnetic levitation systems,

but monorail trains also hang on one rail track. They are just supported by electromagnes' (spelling?) not to fall from one rail track.

Maglevs are completly or in 90% (I'm not an encyclopedia) isolated from the track.

[Moriarty]

We really should be discussing this in OTTD general. It will get a wider audience there (i don't think everyone reads the graphics forum. i didn't until recently).

Can a mod move this thread to the OTTD general forum?

[Born Acorn]

Since you don't get Diesel Multiple Units on Maglevs. I assume you mean the only type you can get. Dual Ended Units.


Monorails are not magnetic at all. They are slow buggers that move at 20-30mph maximum.They operate on elecetric or Diesel.

[Moriarty]

Mod: thanx for moving it.


back to topic: I'd be inclinined to change Thor's list to something like:


Normail rail:
6 steamers
6 diesels
Reasoning - These engines will form the intial foundation of the game, so i'd suggest some variety hence the high numbers.
Could split the diesels up and have some DMU's like the Morely-Manely


Electrified rails:
4 electrics
A nice selection of these things. Don't need many as they can be shared with high-speed rail. some of These could be EMU's.


High speed rail (Can run on normal rail, but slowly):
2 twin-engine diesels
2 twin-engine electrics
You don't need many of these as by this point the player will have a lot of choice of trains.

You do NOT want steamers on high speed rails! these things are for trains doing 300kph (or something akin to).



MagLev:
??
Maglev is a special case because in theory you wouldn't really need engine cars (depending on the type of maglev used). I'd suggest we limit our discussions to the regular track type for now, and discuss maglev at length in another thread.



Narrow gauge:
4 steamers
4 diesels
2 DMUs
Don't know what narrowgauge is good for, so i'll let others argue this one out.



Trams:
5 trams
Same as Narrow Gauge.



Rack railway:
1 steamer
2 diesels
2 electrics

A slection to cover the different train types.

[LordOfThePigs]

Don't know what narrowgauge is good for, so i'll let others argue this one out.

Usually, narrow gauge are used by private companies. There used for short distances, and mountains. Trains running on these tracks usually don't go faster that 90-100 Km/h.

[MeusH]

Monorails are not magnetic at all. They are slow buggers that move at 20-30mph maximum.They operate on elecetric or Diesel.

As many devs say, check it before you post.

I didn't mean that monorail from rollercoaster tycoon, I meant super fast train travelling on one track, supported my magnetic levitation.

So Moriarty, please add monorails to the list, because Thor Rune was right.

[ThorRune]

<dominik81> ThorRune: we don't agree on unifying monorail and maglev.

Devs decide.

[MeusH]

I think players should decide... Anyway, consider monorail is used nowdays in transport, and it is one track + electomagnes' (spelling?).
Maglev has no track, and it is why this type of transport is faster

And to devs, give players more variety: monorails and maglevs shouldn't be grouped together as one railtype, same as trams and trains.

[Moriarty]

I didn't mean that monorail from rollercoaster tycoon, I meant super fast train travelling on one track, supported my magnetic levitation.

You don't seem to understand the premise of monorail versus Maglev in OTTD.

Also stating "maglev doesn't have a track" is actually false. it does have. they don't actually float on thin air. They float on thin-air above a track.
You seem to have maglev and monorail confused. I advise you do some reading on them.
wikipedia.org is a good place. They have multiple language versions. not sure if the polish one will have an entry for them mind. probably will have.


Why are you proposiing that the monorail be a maglev? That doesn't make sense seeing as we already have maglev on the list?!?!?!?! The maglev in OTTD itself could be a monorail. that's a matter for the graphics folks. it doesn't make any real difference to the game if the maglev is mono rail, or whatever.
Please think/research before you post. I did for this post and learnt something. Though monorail remains off the list.


Info on maglev monorail: http://www.monorails.org/tMspages/MagMono.html

[Born Acorn]

I didn't mean that monorail from rollercoaster tycoon, I meant super fast train travelling on one track, supported my magnetic levitation.

Congratulations. You just perfectly described a maglev:



If you can find a high speed monorail photo and or website. Then you would be right.

[MeusH]

You both don't understand me!

@Born Action: Yes, I was on this site, I saw the video...

@Moriarity:

Also stating "maglev doesn't have a track" is actually false. it does have. they don't actually float on thin air. They float on thin-air above a track.

Sure. Monorail travels ON one track and OVER magnets, Maglev travels OVER track, not touching it, levitating OVER magnets.
But here is the text-image showing difference between railtypes:

Code: Select all

 |      |
  -V--V-
___-__-__
Standard

Code: Select all

  |     |
   --V--
_____-___
Monorail

Code: Select all

   |   |
   ----
________
Maglev

See the difference?
ON TWO tracks
ON ONE track + magnetic support
ON ZERO tracks = full magnetic levitation


Now think: Monorail = one track (mono means one, single!) - train travels on one track
MagLev = magnetic levitation. No one said it can't be huge square of magnets. But it is a line... so ppl call it track. But train doesn't touch it! And it is why MagLev trains are faster than monorail trains

Yes, you're very clever. But now imagine train that stands on one track. Impossible? Yes, it may fall down.
So it is why MONORAIL is SUPPORTED by electromagnetic induction.

Is it so hard to understand it?

[Born Acorn]

You still haven't provided any hardcore proof. Just your assumption on how you think it works. It could be entriely fictional.

Heres how a standard definition Monorail works in my crappy paint drawin.
The wheels can be further up or down.

No magnets involved. Possibly counterweights in some wider ones.


edit: added another and a MAGLEV

[Korenn]

You still haven't provided any hardcore proof. Just your assumption on how you think it works. It could be entriely fictional.

Heres how a standard definition Monorail works in my crappy paint drawin.
The wheels can be further up or down.

No magnets involved. Possibly counterweights in some wider ones.
edit: added another and a MAGLEV

he was talking about specific very fast monorail, not in general...

[Born Acorn]

MeusH, you obviously don't know how a monorail works, and can never have seen one in action.

Heres a photo of a Mark VI monorail in action.

[MeusH]

Sure I know that, I had a lesson on physics and I've got best note... lol

Anyway, you've proved monorail and maglev aren't one railtype. Thanks!

[Born Acorn]

Sure I know that, I had a lesson on physics and I've got best note... lol

Anyway, you've proved monorail and maglev aren't one railtype. Thanks!

Yes. But I doubt the devs want 20-30mph monorails in OTTD, since they would be useless.

Korenn, why did you edit your post? Didn't it say something like

Yes, you're very clever. But now imagine train that stands on one track. Impossible? Yes, it may fall down.
So it is why MONORAIL is SUPPORTED by electromagnetic induction.

That is all true except the last bit