AUSSET - VR Development

Purno · Post by **Purno** » 07 Nov 2004 12:22

Ok I wanna draw this engine:

But unfortunately this isn't a good picture, I can't find any. I need a picture which shows the side, the front and the roof.

Help me

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 07 Nov 2004 13:25

ttdx_artist wrote:Patchman: I love your work with the patch, but nothing is limited, you just need to exploit things more thoroughly and work out how to improve.

How can you think to lecture the Patchman?!?! He has worked on the Patch for years. He holds a doctorate. He knows what is and is not possible within the confines of the Patch. Why do you think the OpenTTD project was started? Exactly for this reason - to support things that the Patch cannot do.

DanMacK · Post by **DanMacK** » 07 Nov 2004 18:35

VR = Victorian Railways

ttdx_artist, as much as I'd love to draw for this set, it'll have to wait several months for me to even think about it. Between the steam for the Finnish set, the few locos I'm working on for the BR set, the continuing work on the USSet and my pet project the Canadian set... I'll have to implore you to wait.

Sorry mate, but no-can do ATM...lol

ttdx_artist · Post by **ttdx_artist** » 07 Nov 2004 22:29

Purno: Check all of the 2000 type class locos eg. 2100, 2200 etc. they're all the same body type.

DanMacK: Thats fine mate, we aren't in any hurry yet anyway.

Raichase · Post by **Raichase** » 08 Nov 2004 05:20

You have drawn some very nice graphics TTDLX artist, and I greatly respect your abilities, but you have to be very carefull:

Firstly, trying to split the AU set in half and having 2 different groups make 2 different AU Sets is doing to be a very silly idea... The US Set people had a hell of a lot of arguments about various things, but fortunatley, they had a VERY good person in charge (Krtaylor should step forward about now), who was able to keep everyone organised, and get the set out.

Secondly, trying to force people to play a way that is different to the norm is going to be very difficult to do, and not having any electrified track is going to put off a lot of people. You argue that we didn't use to have electric track, but we do now, and I don't know many people that can live without such cute little eye-candy...

Thirdly, unless you are coding for the patch, you can't really talk back to Josef. Yes, we can ask about various angles, and how such things work, and how he manipulates things, but you can't say that he needs to bend things "more" and maniplulate "more", as he has done so much for the patch, and for the community, andwe all owe him a great deal - I am happy that he keeps churning things out, making the odd suggestion, but not pushing anything, because it isn't far.

Finally, 3 guages is going to be very awkward from a game-playing point of view as well, as you are going to have worry about changing tracks, rather than just upgrading the trains on the current track - with electrified railways, this is easy, as you can just drag the canternary over the tracks already there, and it doesn't disrupt the trains - but changing guages will be similar to how we changed to monorail or maglev back when we first played unpatched TT - the ripping up of the whole network, and replacing it. And don't say that we can drag and drop over it like elctrified railways, because the trains on the other guage wouldn't run properly. I suggest you have narrow gauge initally, then dual-guage (to make the narrow gauge trains still work properly), then electrified dual-guage as the third track type...

Just think about it, and especially listen to people like Josef and Krtaylor - they know what they are talking about.

Please.

Raichase

ttdx_artist · Post by **ttdx_artist** » 08 Nov 2004 09:56

Raichase wrote:Finally, 3 guages is going to be very awkward from a game-playing point of view as well, as you are going to have worry about changing tracks, rather than just upgrading the trains on the current track -

huh... i am just replacing mono and maglev, what is so confusing about that? before the patch era, we all used these... if anything, i'm going back to basics, all we are doing is replacing ttd graphics... so all in all, we are saving sprites for other more important things like loco's etc. And how many times do I have to tell everyone that there is hardly any eletrified railway lines in australia... there is only about 5% out of all lines that are electrified... and the set only has about 5-7 electrics. Also, the posts for electricrailsw.grf are euro style, totally different to australian posts... have a look next time. And i started this thread to escape all the negetive comments, if you are going to be another miserable sod... please go away, i said please.

From now on, i'm not going to wait for comments on ideas, i'm just going to do them, otherwise we just get all these arguements... and if you dont like my ideas, go to the other set.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 08 Nov 2004 15:16

As I've said before, it's much more likely that an Aussie set will someday be released if everybody works together. It looks like you are bound and determined to work on your own, and if that's the case, we wish you the best of luck and look forward to playing your set when it's finished. There have been one-man sets before. I must point out, however, that the authors of those sets worked closely with Patchman, and insulting him is not a good way to start such a project.

Personally, I recommend that Raichaise be nominated as the manager of the Aussie set (the other one, now, I suppose) as he knows the Australian trains. I know nothing about them so I'm reluctant to try to take charge, although I suppose I could if everyone wanted me to.

It's true that the original game had three totally separate track types. It's also true that most people (like me) found that rather annoying, since they didn't work together at all. But you're welcome to try it.

DanMacK · Post by **DanMacK** » 08 Nov 2004 20:20

ttdx_artist, nobody's trying to be negative or miserable here, we're just being practical. Personally, I think Raichaise has the right idea. There may not be much electrification, but that doesn't mean you leave it out altogether. There are some of us that like

To be honest, I'd suggest dropping the Broad gauge. While it's an interesting concept to use Broad/Std/Narrow, it isn't that practical to be included. Broad gauge was a rather small portion of the Australian rail network, and honestly, what would be my inspiration for using it? Broad gauge, as a rule, would be more expensive than standard and narrow, and wouldn't carry more capacity-wise. Narrow gauge was designed to be an inexpensive alternative to Std./Broad and that's why I'd say keep it.

Electric adds heavy mountain lugging, as well as high-speed interurban trains, both of which are common around Sydney. Since it seems that both VR and SAR were the only broad-gauge systems of any import, and VR used some standard gauge, albeit after the 60's I believe. To have 2 sets because of a disagreement such as this doesn't make sense.

Whitehandindustries has the right idea in starting small. I'd say put your differences aside, combine the sets and start with standard gauge only. After an Aus. Std. gauge set is out, then you can hash out the practicalities of representing the impractical gauge situation. I'm not saying that you'll be able to have Point Pirie Junction on your networks, but you may be able to do something similar.

This isn't being negative, it's the only way that makes sense ATM to be honest. There is still a possibility for 3 gauges, but you need to remember a few things.

1. TTD does have its limits, and as Josef said, stretch those limits too far, and they'll break.

2. There are those of us that like using electric, and for some things, like suburban passenger service, diesel just doesn't cut it. There are some really cool looking electrics on Aus. railways (VR Class L to name one)

3. A full 3-gauge set may be better suited to OpenTTD, where more than 3 track types are being worked on. This isn't meant to dissuade a TTDX/Patch set, I'm merely suggesting that your 3-gauge setup may have to wait until OTTD supports newgrfs.

Raichase · Post by **Raichase** » 09 Nov 2004 04:38

ttdx_artist wrote:huh... i am just replacing mono and maglev, what is so confusing about that?

The fact that everyone uses E-rails now-a-days

And how many times do I have to tell everyone that there is hardly any eletrified railway lines in australia... there is only about 5% out of all lines that are electrified...

Well, I don't know if you have ever been to Sydney, but our whole network is electrified. Sure, most of the long haul trains are not (XPT being the most famous example), but there have been a lot of electric trains too.

Also, the posts for electricrailsw.grf are euro style, totally different to australian posts... have a look next time

.

Actually, they are so similar it is scary. The only major difference is that most of NSW's electric track is double canternary, but the electricrailsw.grf rails are very close to the ones on the single tracks... I'll see if I can find some images:

Here

and here

as well as here...

Most of them look very similar to the electrified track as made by Michael (although our canternary is all old and rusted :S)

And i started this thread to escape all the negetive comments, if you are going to be another miserable sod... please go away, i said please.

Realisitc and Miserable seem to occupy the same position here - sorry to see...

.

From now on, i'm not going to wait for comments on ideas, i'm just going to do them, otherwise we just get all these arguements... and if you dont like my ideas, go to the other set.

I'm only trying to stop you from doing something that ends up being impractical - the way I see it, there is no point in doing a lot of hard work, pushing away anyone with a different opinion, and then having people not enjoy your set because it doesn't cater... If you are going to try this set alone, then good luck, but don't shoo away people just because they have different opinions to yourself...

ttdx_artist · Post by **ttdx_artist** » 09 Nov 2004 11:56

whatever?!? i am sick of just boring sets that simply replace graphics, it loses its "thing" after about a month... no offence to all the USset people... but i got bored of it on my first try by the year 1980... i haven't touched it since. i want a set thats fun, interesting, challenging, none so far have done this... and if you dont like it, get a life, try challenging yourself (and TTD), and leave me alone to work in peace! i am doing someting different, and people dont like a change, but i do, and this is my set, so deal with it... and i bet you all that as soon as it is released you will all download it despite bagging the s**t out of me for it. so if you dont like my ideas, simply go away, dont try to change my mind, cause you wont be able to, i only want replies from people who are interested in helping, purno for example... he followed to help despite drawing for the other set... and he hasn't yet said a word in this set about gauges, i admire this guy greatly for this... and purno, sorry if i said anything in the past

Purno · Post by **Purno** » 09 Nov 2004 12:04

I must admit I haven't read the whole topic, but I like different gauges.

I once suggested a metro system for the Finnish Trainset, just for realism and for a change, to have something different than other sets (like DB set uses monorail for passengers only). But everybody thought it was useless "Why is the way all other sets handle metro not good enough for you?"

But I'm not gonna discuss this again.

Anyways, I just like to make graphics. I hope ppl like, and will use my graphics. Actually I don't care which set uses my graphics. All graphics I draw for any other Australian set, may be used by this set too, and vice versa (but let me know if you wanna use them

)

Villem · Post by **Villem** » 09 Nov 2004 12:19

Broad gauge seems a little useless..As it doesn't offer anything unique other than broader trains, no higher loading capacities or anything.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 09 Nov 2004 14:49

ttdx_artist is right that the Aussie caternary looks rather different from MB's. But I believe you can draw your own caternary sprites and use them instead, if you like.

Sanchimaru · Post by **Sanchimaru** » 09 Nov 2004 16:26

to ttdx_artist:
I have to say that the only s**t around here is your vocabulary and your attitude: you behave as an 11 years old boy.
First of all, nobody is bagging any s**t as you say; mostly because they were kind to you, used correct words, and just gave you some advice about what should be the best way to do what you want to do. Unlike you, with your arrogant attitude... it's discusting.
You are getting advice from people with experience, and you complain about it, and insult them... but you said it yourself earlier: you only want to hear people who agrees with you. Well, that way, you will never get a mature opinion of facts, since you'll know no more than what you tink.
These are forums, so you should be here to discuss and to listen to people, not to say "now I go alone, and do myself one!" because you don't want to hear who disagrees with you; and worst of all, insult them and refer to them as if they were inferior for not understanding and cooperating with your magnificient ideas...
Yet again, you said it yourself: you liked Purno... because he didn't say yet what was his oppinion!! (and you didn't even care to ask him) definately you don't want to hear but yourself.
And last, don't bet: I am not going to download your set, because you are such a selfish, arrogant and gross person. I don't want to support your work in any way

DanMacK · Post by **DanMacK** » 09 Nov 2004 19:25

ttdx_artist - there's a difference between being practical and being challenging. I agree that this is your set and it appears you won't listen to reason. The fact still remains that Broad Gauge will serve no useful purpose in this (or any) set. Nobody except possibly yourself will use it.

Aside from that, it's a good idea, but I can't help but think that having 2 Australian sets is shooting yourself in the foot.

Before you get all pissed off and throw another "It's my set and I'll do what I want" hissy fit, ask yourself this.

"Do I want a set that's designed for the TTD fans at large, or do I want to force them to play my way"

In the event I did DL your set, I can't really see why I'd use BG. Then again, that's just a personal thought. You do what you want, and we'll see how it turns out.

Villem · Post by **Villem** » 09 Nov 2004 19:30

A LOT of us who have started a train set, that they have had to sacrifice things for gameplay or another reason(i.e by not contributing to gameplay, like Metro Track for Finnish Train Set, and its usabilaty would been kind of null, though its just a 3rd rail track, that runs on almost totally seperate network). If you are not willing to sacrifice some things for gameplay or other reasons, you are shooting yourself in the foot cause not everybody shares your opinion. Also "flaming"(put it that way cause it isn't really flaming, but i can't find the right word) respected members of the forum cause they offer constructive criticism to you. This Is My Opinion, Now i have said what i wanted to say, and i will leave your thread alone, but please consider carefully before replying to other members posts now.

ajy170 · Post by **ajy170** » 09 Nov 2004 23:06

The whole of Brisbane’s passenger network is electric, as is most of the inner-city train networks in Australia, but yes the inter state lines used for freight are in most cases are not electric but this is not reason enough for having no electric lines at all when the passenger networks are electric.

You are not going to get anywhere if all you people are going to do is yell and through insults back at each other. GROW UP for God’s sake! Especially you ttdx_artist, while this is your set it would be of great benefit to you if you did listen to other people and then sit down and think through what has been suggested rationally, and not just reject with the kind of mentality that a 4 year old would you use. Now I respect your ambitions but maybe locomotion, or open ttd would be a better place for this set if you really want to have 3 different types of rail. I would love to see a Australian train set, or cargo set, but if this keeps up and you people can’t work together then I’m afraid we will most likely never see one

Flavius · Post by **Flavius** » 10 Nov 2004 01:24

Queensland Rail (QR) is the most exstensively electrified in Australia.

The backbone of the QR network - Brisbane north to Cairns is electrified as far north as Rockhampton, approximately 800k (500 miles) north of Brisbane.

Many lines used to transport coal from interior mines to coastal ports are also electrified.

Interestingly too, QR is one of the worlds largest narrow gauge systems. Operating on 3'6" (1067mm) width between the rails.

ttdx_artist · Post by **ttdx_artist** » 10 Nov 2004 02:58

ok guys, whatever... i'm not trying to fall into line with what ttd has to offer and what everyone else wants... thats what the ASGS is for, i'm trying to add realism to the game... i have decided that if you want electrification you can have it, cause while we're all throwing punches nothing is getting done... i still want three gauges, but what i'll do is draw each gauge with and without electrification, then you can all just pick and choose what you want. Simply just replace the sprites with the one's you want. The only other option i will consider is having Narrow Gauge Eletrified-Standard/Broad Guage-Standard/Broad Gauge eletrified, but... if i do this, we will lose any broad gauge loco's that weren't bogie exchanged to standard gauge... so if i do this option, i will draw a seperate broad gauge set, cause there is so so many great aussie loco's on broad gauge, eg. Heavy Harry, S Class (SOP), SAR 900 Class, 530 Class, R Class. etc.

We have to make this dicision soon, because ATM nothing is getting done.

DaleStan · Post by **DaleStan** » 10 Nov 2004 03:15

ttdx_artist wrote:We have to make this dicision soon, because ATM nothing is getting done.

Just like ASGS is WhiteHand's set, this is your set. You have to make the decisions. We are just trying to point out the pros and cons of the various directions that appear to be under consideration.

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