Planeset [version 1.5.3 released 2006-10-24]

molace · Post by **molace** » 21 Aug 2004 07:21

There are lot more planes in you table, why you don't put them in the Planeset. And if you send me all helicopter pictures i can draw the helicopters well. My e-mail: molace@freemail.hu

DanH · Post by **DanH** » 21 Aug 2004 08:16

Just to point out to you in terms of pricing and stuff, I think the SNES/Genesis (Mega Drive) game Aerobiz Supersonic may be useful. It's an airline management game where you buy up planes and run routes, the planes are all licensed and it has a lot of the stuff in your list. The use to you is that for each plane it gives a cost, in this it's realistic figures so it's like $25M for a 737 etc. but at least you could convert those prices into more TT-able figures..... if I remember right it also has fuel efficiency figures and possibly reliability stats..... so you could collect a lot of information from it. How you get hold of it is up to you, mind.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 21 Aug 2004 15:37

@DanH - Not a bad idea. I've never heard of this game though.

@molace - We cannot do all the planes in the table, because TTD can only handle 41 planes. There was a good bit of arguing before we decided which ones we were going to do.

There is a table of the planes we are doing, with photos and links, here:

http://www.as-st.com/ttd/planes/planes.html

You will easily find the aircraft that remain to be done, and can work on them.

DanH · Post by **DanH** » 21 Aug 2004 16:43

I've managed to dig up a pricelist off a guide so I'll drop it here for you, unfortunately it only did buying prices and it doesn't include all your planes but it's a start, this is US$ and whether it's accurate to reality I'm unsure, there's other planes in too but they're not relevant to your set, Ilyushin etc.

Concorde 110000K
Airbus A300 60000K
Airbus A300-600 62000K
Airbus A310 47500K
Airbus A320 28000K
Airbus A340 99000K
Boeing B707-120 42300K
Boeing B707-320 45000K
Boeing B727-100 21600K
Boeing B727-200 33000K
Boeing B737-200 24750K
Boeing B737-300 34100K
Boeing B747-200 134000K
Boeing B747-300 112500K
Boeing B747-400 135000K
Boeing B757 35750K
Boeing B767 38500K
Boeing B777 54000K
Lockheed L1011 72000K
Lockheed L1049 19800K
MDC DC6 11200K
MDC DC8-30 43200K
MDC DC8-50 44550K
MDC DC8-60 40800K
MDC DC9-30 23400K
MDC DC10 67500K
MDC MD11 102000K
MDC MD12 120000K
MDC MD80 33000K
MDC MD100 36000K

hunray · Post by **hunray** » 23 Aug 2004 05:37

Would somebody add these original graphics into helicopter type?
(but no helicopter sound & windstick graph... thanks)

<<Zeppelin>>
Speed:150mph
Price:$50,000
Running cost:$4,000
Capacity:120 passengers, 50 bags of mail

<<Small UFO>>
Speed:5000mph+
Price:$200,000
Running cost:$5,000
Capacity:30 passengers, 10 bags of mail

<<Military Plane>>
Speed:2000mph+
Price:$80,000
Running cost:$6,000
Capacity:5 passengers, 30 bags of mail

459 · Post by **459** » 23 Aug 2004 09:33

Hunray: If you code TTDPatch to allow handling of more than 41 different planes we'll consider adding them. Currently all slots are reserved.

I've started personal playtest (now played thru 1950-1980) of the set and I've noticed the following:

-I've found some small bugs, they'll be fixed in next release.
-All pre-1980 helicopters and prop planes except DC-6 are unprofitable. Better airports with landing runway free almost all the time like OpenTTD's "International airport" would help considerably because now if there's more traffic in one airport you can easily see many planes trying to land. I'll also try to fix the costing to make them useful.
-Without the speedfix, all planes that are slower than 216mph become FASTER (216mph) when they break. Haven't tried with speedfix but this is TTD/TTDPatch problem.

krtaylor: For United reference livery of DC-8 Ss, http://www.airliners.net/open.file/171373/M/

DanH · Post by **DanH** » 23 Aug 2004 10:05

I disagree, I had 2 Lockheed Constellations making about £5000-8000 a year off a small airport. But I do agree the small airports can get clogged up, the problem being that the distance from the "tarmac" to the runway is too small so by the time a plane lands it's very rare (unless the plane is full loading or something) that a second one can get down and land too.

RPharazon · Post by **RPharazon** » 23 Aug 2004 14:32

Yes, I've noticed that.

I've seen a 340-300 get down in a small airport, unload, then lift off again before the faster Sonic Cruiser circling the airport could even land.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 23 Aug 2004 15:22

Fix this by making the planes load slower? Esp. the bigger ones?

DanH · Post by **DanH** » 23 Aug 2004 17:15

I think the best fix, which would also make the airports look a little closer to realism, is to make the loading/unloading time longer.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 23 Aug 2004 17:31

It seems to me that we should set a fixed number of people to load/unload per tick, say 30. That way a smaller plane will load/unload faster than a larger one, which is in fact perfectly realistic.

Although, I think part of the problem is that people are using planes at small airports which are not designed to go there. In my original Excel file, I noted which aircraft should be permitted to land at small airports, and which shouldn't. This is a parameter the GRF files support also. Of course, you CAN make a big plane land at a small airport, but it's at much higher risk of a crash. 459, is small-airport-ability properly coded yet in your test GRF files?

459, can you explain the problem with the speedfix and plane speeds? Are you saying that, if you don't have fast-airplanes turned on, then when a plane breaks, it speeds up? Because I've never noticed that before. Or is it the opposite, that with fast-airplanes on, the plane speeds up when it breaks? If there's a bug, it should be reported to Patchman so he can fix it.

459 · Post by **459** » 23 Aug 2004 18:41

Small airport "compatibility" should be as it appears in my speclist. I'll check the values for next release.

Without planespeed on, there appears to be a fixed value for speed for broken airplanes that is 216mph. Thus Concorde becomes VERY slow and the slower planes speed up. With planespeed on - I haven't tried.

Next release (probably Wednesday) will have the following:

-Code more bug-free than before
-A small color glitch in B747EUD sprite fixed

I'll probably alter some mail capacities also.

Some new features for TTDPatch would help considerably with the planes. krtaylor, I'd like you to remind patch team of these:

-Bigger adjustment range for running costs in order to have greater pax/cargo requirement for big planes.
-Possibility to set discrete value for aircraft cargo carrying capacity. My testgame is full running 747EUDs with 180 tons of cargo carrying capacity and I haven't even bothered to do more than around 10 trains. Ability to make that plane to have the cargo capacity of 120 tons (which it really has) would promote the useability of any other forms of transportation.
-More user adjustability for planespeed switch. Current range of settings (whether planespeed on or off) is too coarse. Separate for broken and nonbroken planes would also help.
-OpenTTD style international airport (or something equal of the same caliber) to give more edge for smaller&slower planes circling the airport and waiting their turn to land. Landing runway is vacant for more time.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 23 Aug 2004 19:06

459 wrote: -Bigger adjustment range for running costs in order to have greater pax/cargo requirement for big planes.

This is already possible I think, we needed (and got) a solution for this for the US set. PM Oracle about it.

459 wrote:-Possibility to set discrete value for aircraft cargo carrying capacity. My testgame is full running 747EUDs with 180 tons of cargo carrying capacity and I haven't even bothered to do more than around 10 trains. Ability to make that plane to have the cargo capacity of 120 tons (which it really has) would promote the useability of any other forms of transportation.

This has been requested for a long, long time. Last I heard, it was fairly close to the top of the development list, although I think there was an experimental function in the last alpha. I'll look into it.

459 wrote:-More user adjustability for planespeed switch. Current range of settings (whether planespeed on or off) is too coarse. Separate for broken and nonbroken planes would also help.

Good point. This sounds like it might not be too difficult. I'll ask.

459 wrote:-OpenTTD style international airport (or something equal of the same caliber) to give more edge for smaller&slower planes circling the airport and waiting their turn to land. Landing runway is vacant for more time.

Almost certainly not going to happen any time remotely soon. It is thought to be theoretically possible, and the necessary data structures are more or less understood, but it would be an immense amount of work and nobody seems willing to do it.

Patchman · Post by **Patchman** » 23 Aug 2004 19:27

krtaylor wrote:
459 wrote: -Bigger adjustment range for running costs in order to have greater pax/cargo requirement for big planes.
This is already possible I think, we needed (and got) a solution for this for the US set. PM Oracle about it.

That was possible for trains because they allow you to set the running cost base in addition to the multiplier. That's not possible for planes, I'm afraid.

459 wrote:-Possibility to set discrete value for aircraft cargo carrying capacity. My testgame is full running 747EUDs with 180 tons of cargo carrying capacity and I haven't even bothered to do more than around 10 trains. Ability to make that plane to have the cargo capacity of 120 tons (which it really has) would promote the useability of any other forms of transportation.
This has been requested for a long, long time. Last I heard, it was fairly close to the top of the development list, although I think there was an experimental function in the last alpha. I'll look into it.

Yes, it's possible to set different capacities depending on the cargo type, using the capacity callback.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 23 Aug 2004 19:39

Hmm. Those answers were opposite from what I expected.

Is there some other hack we can use to change the operating costs? I guess that airplanes don't have different motive-power cost scales the way trains do?

Patchman · Post by **Patchman** » 23 Aug 2004 20:29

No, not that I know of.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 23 Aug 2004 20:36

OK. 459, what is the exact problem? I mean, what's the lowest allowable cost, and the highest, and what were you looking for? A higher highest? There should be at least 256 gradations in between if they work like I think they do, is that not enough?

459 · Post by **459** » 24 Aug 2004 09:27

Lowest allowable maint cost with maintenance cost setting "low" is £28 and higher highest is what I'm asking for. However, NOT by changing maintenance cost setting of the game since it doesn't change the balance between vehicle types.

459 · Post by **459** » 25 Aug 2004 10:07

25/Aug/04 Beta release.

Fixed face-up tailfins for 707, 727, 737, both 747's, 757, 767, A320, A321, and DC-8. I've given some remodeling for DH Comet, it's wingshape was too close of the LB-8 sprite scottishasttdx has drawn it from. I also gave Embraer 190 cc to engines since in sideviews you couldn't almost see them.

Airplane technical values have seen further adjustments and general debugging has been done.

459 · Post by **459** » 25 Aug 2004 10:12

The DH Comet...

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Planeset [version 1.5.3 released 2006-10-24]

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