I don't give a bleep whether AI is impossible, just FIX IT!

BobXP · Post by **BobXP** » 20 Jul 2004 13:51

Blue line is where the train is going, green is where it should go. I have triple-checked my signals. Surely this is completely stupid.

It's getting to the point now where I don't really care if I'll have to use OpenTTD to get better train AI, but whatever it takes I WANT THIS FIXED.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » 20 Jul 2004 13:54

BobXP wrote:.......but whatever it takes I WANT THIS FIXED.

Well start working on it then.

BobXP · Post by **BobXP** » 20 Jul 2004 13:56

lol.

Last time I tried to use OpenTTD it wouldn't even compile.

SHADOW-XIII · Post by **SHADOW-XIII** » 20 Jul 2004 16:19

BobXP, you can try working on TTDPatch to

anywa .... one word: W A Y P O I N T S

Patchman · Post by **Patchman** » 20 Jul 2004 16:45

BobXP wrote:It's getting to the point now where I don't really care if I'll have to use OpenTTD to get better train AI, but whatever it takes I WANT THIS FIXED.

I'd fix it for, say, £100 per hour of my time. Deal?

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 20 Jul 2004 17:35

Yes! BobXP, please take his offer and save us all from the stupid AI....

BobXP · Post by **BobXP** » 20 Jul 2004 17:52

Patchman wrote:
BobXP wrote:It's getting to the point now where I don't really care if I'll have to use OpenTTD to get better train AI, but whatever it takes I WANT THIS FIXED.
I'd fix it for, say, £100 per hour of my time. Deal?

I'd do that, but I'm not that rich. lol.

Anyway I found a "sort of" fix for it using presignals, but that doesn't mean that the AI doesn't need improving.

Arathorn · Post by **Arathorn** » 20 Jul 2004 17:59

Improving the AI is very hard. Josef tried it once already and that attempt failed.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 20 Jul 2004 18:08

Acrtually, it is THOUGHT that it would be possible to completely replace the AI, by writing a completely new logic program in whatever language was convenient, and connecting it to TTD via the multiplayer system. So from TTD's point of view, there would be one normal local player (the human player), and one remote player (the newly-written, separate, standalone AI gameplaying program). This avoids any problems of having to deal with the original TTD AI data structures, and possible you could use open-source AI algorithms. But it would still be a lot of work.

Raichase · Post by **Raichase** » 20 Jul 2004 20:58

BobXP wrote:It's getting to the point now where I don't really care if I'll have to use OpenTTD to get better train AI, but whatever it takes I WANT THIS FIXED.

You are in no position to demand anything. Do it yourself, or submit a polite suggestion like everyone else. Some things annoy me in TT (be they a result of my patch settings being wrong) or be they part of original TT (for example, the trains that decide to get lost, as yours did), but I just find a way to deal with it, without venting it all out in public to people who are more cilivised in their way of dealing with problems.

Josef? Double your price if he keeps it up

BobXP · Post by **BobXP** » 20 Jul 2004 22:21

bobxp wrote:I found a "sort of" fix for it using presignals

... and recently found out that it didn't work.

Anyway, here's an even more trivial example:

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 20 Jul 2004 22:42

Well, I don't think anyone here really finds it breaking news, that the AI or the pathfinding system is pretty stupid. And we've already explained the only potential ways to improve those items:

1. Pay Josef to rewrite it, big $$$
2. Write a separate module, and tie it in via the multiplayer system.

If Josef were willing to rewrite both aspects, I wouldn't want him to, not because I don't want them fixed (I do, very much) but because there are known workarounds, and there are other things I want the Patch to do that there aren't any workarounds for, and I'd rather he spent his time on that.

BobXP · Post by **BobXP** » 20 Jul 2004 22:44

You know I think I will get off my lazy ass tomorrow and see how well documented the ottd source code is.

DaleStan · Post by **DaleStan** » 21 Jul 2004 04:32

BobXP almost wrote:It's getting to the point now where I don't really care if I'll have to use OpenTTD to get better AI, but whatever it takes I WANT THIS FIXED.

1) That's "pathfinding", not "AI".
2) The best way to get something done around here is to do it yourself.
3) How about a savegame so we can figure out why that's happening. There is a reason, and I expect I could find it if I had a savegame.

Oh, and I'll fix it for US$100/hour (Yes, I know I'm undercutting Patchman), but that'll include the time it takes me to learn ASM. Better yet, (1) I won't be keeping Patchman off the other projects and (2) when all is said and done, you'll have another member of the patchteam.

BobXP · Post by **BobXP** » 21 Jul 2004 14:22

Hmm. I think that the pathfinding mechanism was broken in a recent alpha. I used to be able to leave this particular game running for hours without the trains jamming up, but now I leave it half a minute and this happens:

spaceman-spiff · Post by **spaceman-spiff** » 21 Jul 2004 16:26

What horrible games you play

BobXP · Post by **BobXP** » 21 Jul 2004 16:29

Why are my games horrible?

BTW I fixed it by improving the junction.

SHADOW-XIII · Post by **SHADOW-XIII** » 21 Jul 2004 17:01

spaceman-spiff wrote:What horrible games you play

indeed ... it looks awful for me

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 21 Jul 2004 17:07

I hate the original TTD maglevs anyway, and your road-surface thing makes it even worse. Ugly. Also it makes it impossible to diagnose intersection problems, because you cannot see what directions are allowed at the intersections.

BobXP · Post by **BobXP** » 21 Jul 2004 17:19

krtaylor wrote:Also it makes it impossible to diagnose intersection problems, because you cannot see what directions are allowed at the intersections.

Quite the contrary, it is very easy to see the individual tracks on my MagRoads set, and is not easy to see them on the original maglevs.

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