Bundesbahn set [Planning & pasting - 2,13% done]

[Purno]

PS: Say something about the Transrapids

What do you want me to say? What do you want to do with the Transrapids?

[Saskia]

Which ones should be included, and which not (see post above)

[Purno]

Which ones should be included, and which not (see post above)

HMB2 is ulgy and doesn't seem to be very useful

TR 05 is good to include I think

TR 06 seems to be the same, so no need to include it.

TR 07 seems to be somewhat newer, maybe if this one is faster or has higher capacity it could be included

TR 08 has DB-colors (white with red stripe) so I think this one should be included anyway.

[Saskia]

But TR 08 was built in 1999, and has the new red-and-white-only colors that I originally didn't wanted to include ... hmmm ... and it's very very similar to TR 07. Should we really do it?

And didn't you mess up something? TR 05 looks like a short TR 07, not TR 06, which has this nice lifted-up nose

What about TR 04 from 1977, TR 05 was only two years later and isn't bigger, but you could choose from more vehicles in the list

[Purno]

But TR 08 was built in 1999, and has the new red-and-white-only colors that I originally didn't wanted to include ... hmmm ...

The new colors are great I think, and I don't think you shoud 'disinclude' it because of the colors.

and it's very very similar to TR 07. Should we really do it?

Does TR 07 have the same colors?

And didn't you mess up something?

ehmm... probably, yes.

TR 05 looks like a short TR 07, not TR 06, which has this nice lifted-up nose

ehmm... the pictures I saw, where not very clear, and they are mixed up and ... whatever

What about TR 04 from 1977, TR 05 was only two years later and isn't bigger,

Is it faster? Or has it any other advantage compared to the other?

but you could choose from more vehicles in the list

That's nice but I don't think that's really important.

[Saskia]

Hm, TR 04 is faster, I think. TR 05 only does 75 Km/h and looks like TR 07 in short. But TR 04 was only a prototype and TR 05 was really used ... difficult!

TR 06 and TR 07 have different colors: TR 06 has this military green between the windows, and TR 07 has a rainbow-colored stripe on the lower section.

I suggest I start drawing them all at home and make a inofficial copy of TR 08 with different colors, and tomorrow we'll see. Or we'll see someday ... maybe we need more vehicles someday.

[Hyronymus]

To me it looks you are going to edit graphics made by someone else without having the permission (yet)

But i'll ask MB if I may include some of his graphics.

What I meant to say is you shouldn't (even: can't) edit any of his graphics until you have permission. I pointed that out when you posted an NS-edited Transrapid in the NSset topic before.

[Purno]

What I meant to say is you shouldn't (even: can't) edit any of his graphics until you have permission. I pointed that out when you posted an NS-edited Transrapid in the NSset topic before.

Why can't you edit any graphics of anyone else, as long as you don't release them? Same for my NS-edited Transrapid: I only released the preview, I've made all sprites, once we've decided to use it and we've permission of MB, I can release all sprites. What's wrong with releasing a preview, it's the same as showing a screenshot, isn't it?

[Saskia]

I'm unable to contact MB if I don't have his email address ...

I've collected some data about all TRs, but had no time to draw them yesterday:

Code: Select all

Name	Year	P(HP)	V(Km/h)	Voff	Seats		Comments
TR 04	1973		250	?	?
TR 05	1979		75	75	68		No prototype
TR 06	1983		415	400	192	
TR 07	1988		450	500	192		
TR 08	1999		500	500	2x 92 + 127	Has middle-car

And the BR 111 with S-Bahn cars is attached.

[eis_os]

Hmm, we only need a way to add trams to TTD Then we could have trams from KVB/SWB and have the full local traffic.

Nice work...

[Hyronymus]

Why can't you edit any graphics of anyone else, as long as you don't release them? Same for my NS-edited Transrapid: I only released the preview, I've made all sprites, once we've decided to use it and we've permission of MB, I can release all sprites. What's wrong with releasing a preview, it's the same as showing a screenshot, isn't it?

What we (the NSteam and others) do is using the sprites CS made as a reference for size, direction in perspective and positioning. We don't modify the graphics, instead we draw our own graphics over them. Example: I took an e-loc from TTD and drew up a dutch eloc in the sprites that were used for the TTD e-loc.
What you are doing (if I'm correct) is taking a graphic made by Michael Blunck and changing the colour scheme (i.e. your Transrapid for the NSset). That is not creating something totally new (like drawing a dutch e-loc, TTD never had those) but modifying something that already exists. And you don't permission from Michael Blunck (in this case) to do that.
You probably think by now that I have something against you but I'm trying to prevent you from getting into trouble with Michael Blunck. Michael Blunck wrote in his copyright notice:

Permission to use, copy and distribute this software (consisting of the graphics and its implementation code)...

He did not give you permission to edit his creation, This is not open source!

[Saskia]

Please, this is not a copyright discussion thread. I will ask MB for permission when I got a way to communicate with him ... ... and the Transrapids will all be re-drawn, because the TR 09 from MB doesn't look like a real TR

... trams from KVB/SWB ...

KVB trams are so huge and fast that you can easily declare them as real railway vehicles

[Purno]

I removed the Transrapid.

What about the copyrights of the original TTD sprites???



EDIT: Saskia, sorry for OT, I hope this will be the last.

[krtaylor]

We do NOT need two competing DB sets, that would be desperately frustrating and inconvenient.

The right solution is to ask MB if you can draw additional vehicles for hsi DB set, which will be included in future releases. I think (hope? wish?) he wouldn't mind. That might even go down better than asking to borrow some of his, he doesn't take to that well at all...

The DB set was planned before we realized how we could effectively raise the train-type limit to 90 or so. You'll notice that the US set as many more trains than the DB set, that's because it was designed after we realized this. So, there's room to add more trains to the DBset, and if your art is of sufficient quality to please Michael, as it ought to be, then hopefully he will say OK.

I have MB's address and I'll PM it to you, Saskia.

[ChrisCF]

We do NOT need two competing DB sets, that would be desperately frustrating and inconvenient.

Is this really the same person that said we should be releasing our own sets to cut down the near "monopoly" of MB's sets?

Go ahead, I'd say.

[krtaylor]

No, you're missing my point. I do think we should release our own sets: different ones. There are so many countries that we haven't got to yet, it seems superfluous to redo one of the few that we already have.

[Saskia]

Ok, I mailed MB. Let's see what he says about it. Maybe we even don't get the permission to use his sprites as base for new trains ... then it will be a pure TR set

[SHADOW-XIII]

Saskia,krtaylor & other people .... if anyone want to contact Michael Blunck just use TTDPatch Maillist or AGMTT newsgroup

[ChrisCF]

"You turn if you want to ..."
Where have I seen this one before ...

it seems superfluous to redo one of the few that we already have.

IMO, a new set is a new set, regardless of what's already there. If they want to go on, let them do it, as long as they're happy to be a bit more liberal than MB in his licensing.

[krtaylor]

Well, that's a good point actually, it might solve some other problems I suppose...