If you keep the game open on the menu screen the trains eventually get stuck

[Floedekage]

Screenshot 2024-12-22 150420.png (532.51 KiB) Viewed 2465 times

Just a fun observation.

[pickpacket]

Lovely Great find!

[odisseus]

Is it really such a big surprise though? Just looking at the signal placement is sufficient to realise that a deadlock is possible.

[vear]

Just thinking aloud, wouldn't it be better for an official background game to make proper use of PBS? Dunno, it's no big deal afterall.

[jfs]

Just thinking aloud, wouldn't it be better for an official background game to make proper use of PBS? Dunno, it's no big deal afterall.

That's my argument too, the intro screen should be a display of what good route and/or network design looks like, not just things that move around.

[2TallTyler]

I agree, but traditionally we invite the community to submit and vote on the title game for each stable release. Who wants to volunteer to set a standard for “correct” gameplay?

[pickpacket]

I think it should show actual gameplay, even if it's full of mistakes. Wouldn't mind seeing crashes either

[jfs]

Okay then, someone design a title game that starts out looking fine, but after a minute or two shows more and more bad stuff happening! Intentionally making the viewport commands such that they focus on places where something is just about to happen.

[pickpacket]

Okay then, someone design a title game that starts out looking fine, but after a minute or two shows more and more bad stuff happening! Intentionally making the viewport commands such that they focus on places where something is just about to happen.

Yes! Do it!

[Auge]

Hello

My 2 Cents.

Okay then, someone design a title game that starts out looking fine, but after a minute or two shows more and more bad stuff happening! Intentionally making the viewport commands such that they focus on places where something is just about to happen.

I can imagine to look at accidents happening in the title screen (Oh, holy ####!). That's something one or another player will wait for and will have fun with.

But I can't imagine that a deadlock in the title game because of bad signal setting is helpful in any kind. Not only because it may be final and unresolvable (depending on the settings), but also because it is likely to confuse players even before they start a game. That's IMHO a bad idea.

Tschö, Auge

[Redirect Left]

But I can't imagine that a deadlock in the title game because of bad signal setting is helpful in any kind. Not only because it may be final and unresolvable (depending on the settings), but also because it is likely to confuse players even before they start a game. That's IMHO a bad idea.

Yeah, I have to agree with this. You want your intro screen to represent the best practices for not doing things, and to always really show off the game, which it can't do if its jammed. I am actually surprised this wasn't already checked, the signals & junctions alone were always going to be at least slightly prone to jams, if everything aligned badly. I kinda guess i was thinking they all got stress tested for 24 or so hours to make sure that wasn't going to happen, running on idle on a spare computer as i do for the AI tests.

[pickpacket]

Is this really something to be nitpicky about? Is it really something worth putting time and effort into? Has it ever actually confused anyone?

Just let people submit videos for it like always, and let errors happen where they happen. It's really nothing more than eye candy anyway.

[vear]

Nah, it isn't. It could've been done better, but it doesn't necessarily need to, kinda funny to see so much fuss about it. Plus the rumours of the forum's dying state get less and less justified with so much discussion going on!

[odisseus]

Is this really something to be nitpicky about? ... It's really nothing more than eye candy anyway.

Allow me to disagree. When a new player opens the game for the first time, the title screen is his first impression of what the gameplay can look like. That first impression is the main purpose of having a title screen game at all.

Now, if the new player leaves the title screen idle for a while and notices that the trains are stuck, he certainly won't think "Oh, this deadlock was caused by this obvious signalling mistake". He would more likely think along the lines of "the game already broke before I even had a chance to interact with it".

I don't want to impose any strict rules on the competition entries, but I will appreciate it if the authors take care to avoid deadlock situations, which isn't difficult at all.

[Auge]

Hello

When a new player opens the game for the first time, the title screen is his first impression of what the gameplay can look like. That first impression is the main purpose of having a title screen game at all.

Now, if the new player leaves the title screen idle for a while and notices that the trains are stuck, he certainly won't think "Oh, this deadlock was caused by this obvious signalling mistake". He would more likely think along the lines of "the game already broke before I even had a chance to interact with it".

I don't want to impose any strict rules on the competition entries, but I would appreciate it if the authors take care to avoid deadlock situations, which isn't difficult at all.

This. Nothing more to say.

Tschö, Auge

[Heresy]

Hello

When a new player opens the game for the first time, the title screen is his first impression of what the gameplay can look like. That first impression is the main purpose of having a title screen game at all.

Now, if the new player leaves the title screen idle for a while and notices that the trains are stuck, he certainly won't think "Oh, this deadlock was caused by this obvious signalling mistake". He would more likely think along the lines of "the game already broke before I even had a chance to interact with it".

I don't want to impose any strict rules on the competition entries, but I would appreciate it if the authors take care to avoid deadlock situations, which isn't difficult at all.

This. Nothing more to say.

Tschö, Auge

Slight derailment of the topic at hand, but I did have a friend who started playing recently, and she asked me why there were features in the Steam trailer that she couldn't find, as that trailer includes NewGRF content. I think that could count as more confusing, than a deadlock at the title screen.
And for the actual topic at hand, I think it could go both ways, for a totally new player it might be slightly confusing to see the title screen deadlocked, but for someone who has played a bit, they might think "oh, that is inefficient/badly designed, I can do this better".

[jfs]

Slight derailment of the topic at hand, but I did have a friend who started playing recently, and she asked me why there were features in the Steam trailer that she couldn't find, as that trailer includes NewGRF content. I think that could count as more confusing, than a deadlock at the title screen.

That's a good point, any trailer clips and screenshots on the Steam (and other) storefronts should probably be marked that they contain add-on content.

[Redirect Left]

Now, if the new player leaves the title screen idle for a while and notices that the trains are stuck, he certainly won't think "Oh, this deadlock was caused by this obvious signalling mistake". He would more likely think along the lines of "the game already broke before I even had a chance to interact with it".

Hard agree here. Players will default to the worst thought, its only natural when interacting with a new thing.
If it would help, I can dedicate my resources i use for AI testing runs (which I'm still working on next batch ) to do the same for the competition for new version opening screens. Running long-term and either going "this junction here jammed" or correcting the signal/junction and uploading an edited one.

trailer clips and screenshots on the Steam (and other) storefronts should probably be marked that they contain add-on content.

So i just checked (forgot it was on Steam, won't lie. I play from standalone on JGRPP or openttd.org version). Even the first video you get on the game page (https://store.steampowered.com/app/1536610/OpenTTD/) starts all stock, but goes on to use a lot of newgrfs very quickly (around 20 second mark) for stations and railway especially. I would suggest either making the first video entirely stock, or definitely add a mid-video screen showing "with all these great graphical addition possibilities!" so its obvious what you -can- have, but you do need to do a little fishing for them. Perhaps even individually mark what GRFs are used on each scene so its easy to search for them ingame?

Just trying to make sure people are always well informed from the start.

[vear]

I would suggest either making the first video entirely stock, or definitely add a mid-video screen showing "with all these great graphical addition possibilities!" so its obvious what you -can- have, but you do need to do a little fishing for them.

Or, maybe OpenTTD could offer a sort of "Editor's Pick NewGRFs" prompt on the first run, so the users can familiarise more or less with what is worth adding to the base game and quickly get it using the all-familiar "Check online content" menu. It's not like it's hard to use, but a newcomer easily gets overwhelmed by the choice it gives.

[jfs]

Or, maybe OpenTTD could offer a sort of "Editor's Pick NewGRFs" prompt on the first run, so the users can familiarise more or less with what is worth adding to the base game and quickly get it using the all-familiar "Check online content" menu. It's not like it's hard to use, but a newcomer easily gets overwhelmed by the choice it gives.

I disagree on that. Whenever someone says, "I'm a new player, what NewGRFs should I get?", my answer is "none". The game is meant to be playable and enjoyable with the default setup: No changes to settings, no changes to worldgen, no add-ons needed. Just press New game and play.