Game turnning point

[lawton27]

1. I hope one day I'll help to develop the game.
2. Compare the 3 pictures I upload with OTTD graphics.
3. It's not necessary to make it more real. I think making better graphics (like the 3 pictures)'d be enough to make the game attractive and fit the game.
4. Graphics's very important. If you made a very good game with bad graphics, few people'd play it.

1) Great!

2) Yeh OTTD graphics are much better....

3) Have you tried some newGRF's?

4) I completely agree good job OTTD has nice graphics then...

[Transportman]

I don't think HD graphics will magically make the game better. The game is good as it is (improvements can always be done of course), and the HD graphics you suggest are too much work with little gain I think (also holds for your other suggestions in this thread I think). But you can always play the game you got those screenshots from when you want to play with "better" graphics (or Locomotion or something).

A terrible game with great graphics is still a terrible game, while a great game with terrible graphics can still be a great game. OpenTTD has fine graphics, not too intensive for older computers, so I don't think those HD graphics will add much.

You also say NewGRF authors have to make only small changes to their work, I think they have to do a lot of work. You suggested "better" graphics, the authors have to modify their work to also represent those "better" graphics. The realistic curves, the additional sprites for all trains have to be added, to get trains look nicely on those curves, the amount of additional sprites will be enormous.

Last point I want to say something about:

4. The game'll be able to compete with other purchased games.

My guess is that the developers work on OpenTTD because they like working on it, not because they want OpenTTD to compete with commercial games, and that people like playing it because of the way OpenTTD is.

P.S. I say better with "" around it, because both OpenTTD and the screenshots you present have their charms, but they are good for the game they are designed for. Just implementing one in the other will not really work that well I think.

[XeryusTC]

4. Graphics's very important. If you made a very good game with bad graphics, few people'd play it.

If you haven't noticed yet, the most successful game of the last year is a game with graphics which date back to about 15 years. This game is called Minecraft and you can really call it the most successful game of last year if you compare the costs of advertising (which are virtually not existent for that game) vs the amount of money that it has brought in.

I think you heavily underestimate the effect of good gameplay. All of my RL friends and me have been playing this game because of its gameplay and not because of the graphics. All of us could honestly not care less about it. Sure, it might be nice if it looked nicer, but it will not change how we feel about the game. If you really want to make the game more attractive to people make it more accessible if you have no clue on how to play the game, I have found that that is what keeps people from playing the game, not the graphics.

[kamnet]

If How-To's Were Enough, We Would All Be Skinny, Rich & Happy.

Not just a good phrase, but a good motivational book as well. Go read that. Then come back and become a developer. Commit yourself 2-3 years to this goal, and you will have greatly advanced the state of OpenTTD.

[T_Tycoon]

Changing the rails to have these curves (do you think these curves are "realistic" wrt the depicted train sizes?) it will require heavy modification of path finders and a rework of the internal representation of the map at least. One also might want to consider to introduce additional views for the vehicles. All projects of considerable size.

You canI'd say "get going". We appreciate your input, but great ideas of what other shall do... that's easy; you'll be so many more times convincing with your ideas if you start working for them. It will also show you the bear traps in your grand train of thoughts.

leave the curves and number 3 for me to do it in the future. What last's the HD graphics.

A terrible game with great graphics is still a terrible game, while a great game with terrible graphics can still be a great game. OpenTTD has fine graphics, not too intensive for older computers, so I don't think those HD graphics will add much.

You can keep the old OpenGFX.

I think you heavily underestimate the effect of good gameplay. All of my RL friends and me have been playing this game because of its gameplay and not because of the graphics. All of us could honestly not care less about it. Sure, it might be nice if it looked nicer, but it will not change how we feel about the game. If you really want to make the game more attractive to people make it more accessible if you have no clue on how to play the game, I have found that that is what keeps people from playing the game, not the graphics.

You as the developers of the game and someone who heard about TTD love it as it's but I as someone who discovered the game 'll care about graphics but I can play the game very well maybe better than you. As you said, "...it might be nice if it looked nicer..." Maybe you won't care about the new graphics but the new players'll care.

[planetmaker]

Making a complete usable graphics set in 8bpp took approx. 2 years for a team of graphics artists.

What last's the HD graphics.

As said before: that's the main work of all this. It may well take years. Get drawing. OpenTTD supports 32bpp graphics. And probably it'll soon support more detailed versions for zoomed-in modes.

[Alberth]

... Maybe you won't care about the new graphics but the new players'll care.

I quite doubt we want those players. OpenTTD is about game depth, not about fancy 3D explosions.
If players just care for the graphics, they are going to be very disappointed when they find out you have to think carefully about how to solve problems in their transport network, often by watching trains move for several minutes.
I don't know how long a firs person shooter takes real-time nowadays, but I doubt it takes 24 hours or so real-time if you let the program run continuously.

On the other hand, better graphics are always welcome, as are good improvements in the program.


May I suggest to you, instead of developing for OpenTTD after you are a programmer, you do it while you learn to become one?

[T_Tycoon]

On the other hand, better graphics are always welcome, as are good improvements in the program.

So will you start the project to make the new graphics?

... Maybe you won't care about the new graphics but the new players'll care.

I quite doubt we want those players. OpenTTD is about game depth, not about fancy 3D explosions.
If players just care for the graphics, they are going to be very disappointed when they find out you have to think carefully about how to solve problems in their transport network, often by watching trains move for several minutes.
I don't know how long a firs person shooter takes real-time nowadays, but I doubt it takes 24 hours or so real-time if you let the program run continuously.
May I suggest to you, instead of developing for OpenTTD after you are a programmer, you do it while you learn to become one?

I'll learn a lot from the game. I hope when I'm ready to develop the game, the HD graphics are ready to fix its bugs.

[kamnet]

In all honesty, if eyecandy and graphics were the singular driving force in video games, then Simutrans would have beaten OpenTTD a long time ago and we would have all moved over there.

[ChillCore]

HD ... More HD ... even more HD ...

*I was going to post a lot more but I deleted that part as it would bring nothing to this "discussion"*

Instead here are a few links:
http://www.tt-forums.net/viewforum.php?f=66 and scroll down to "32-bit Graphics Development".
Especially have a look at this topic also: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=56922

Will you now please just startup GIMP or Blender or whatever graphics creation program you prefer and do something else than whine about how HD is going to save the gaming industry ... It won't ... never has and never will.

[Rubidium]

People have been working on the HD graphics for about 7.5 years by now. They have completed roughly 1000 sprites or the 10.000 sprites needed, so by around 2075 you'll have the HD graphics you're suggesting. If you don't like that extrapolation, then do something about it yourself instead of whining that the game needs HD graphics.

I reckon the time wasted on discussing the "need" for HD graphics could have been used to draw a dozen or so sprites, but only if everyone participating would be willing and able to draw them.

In any case, everyone who really cares about making 32bpp graphics is working on them and their progress can be tracked in the 32bpp graphics thread. Hint: read it as "nobody cares enough, not even you".

[T_Tycoon]

In all honesty, if eyecandy and graphics were the singular driving force in video games, then Simutrans would have beaten OpenTTD a long time ago and we would have all moved over there.

I think its graphics's not better than the current OTTD graphics. If you want to make HD graphics look at Transport Giant.

Instead here are a few links:
viewforum.php?f=66 and scroll down to "32-bit Graphics Development".
Especially have a look at this topic also: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=56922

Why were you hiding them?

Will you now please just startup GIMP or Blender or whatever graphics creation program you prefer and do something else than whine about how HD is going to save the gaming industry ... It won't ... never has and never will.

Unfortunatly, I plan to be a programmer not a graphic designer but I'll help as I can in the future.

People have been working on the HD graphics for about 7.5 years by now. They have completed roughly 1000 sprites or the 10.000 sprites needed, so by around 2075 you'll have the HD graphics you're suggesting. If you don't like that extrapolation, then do something about it yourself instead of whining that the game needs HD graphics.

I've an idea to complete it faster. What about advertising in the game website, "We need people for the 32 bit graphics development." so everyone'll know about the project and work on it (if he or she a graphic designer)? This advertisement'll remain untill finishing it. What's your opinion? The graphics are very nice and I hope I see it beside OpenGFX.

[Spaz O Mataz]

lol. you think he'd get the idea and stop demanding and start doing.

[rant]
T_Tycoon you want HD graphics while not zooming in but want the tiles making bigger to allow them. if you can explain why the extra zoom patch is not how you do this then I'll use my special contacts to get Chris Sawyers and Simon Forster on board to do your demands.

the way we all see it is your asking for HD graphics. WHAT IS the 32bpp graphics project to you then. The term HD in graphics it's better to understand as larger sized graphics (Higher Detail). original graphics are 8bpp so the 32bpp graphics are 16 times bigger (have 16 times as much pixels) than the original 8bpp graphics.

You want the curves to look more realistic; expand on this as to how you want this and why it is really needed, is it not acceptable that there is diagonal track to allow you to build "fake" curves?

Just looking on wikipedia.org/openttd at the 3rd paragraph will tell you "According to a study of the 61,154 open source projects on SourceForge in the period between 1999–2005, OpenTTD ranked 8th most active open source project to receive patches and contributions." this is no longer true ONLY due to the project moving to it's own server.


I find your attitude towards games in general to be very retarded at the best, I'm sure I could go on forever about this but instead look at this link http://www.filibustercartoons.com/games.htm it has the top 10 Games from various sources and if you can notice they all mention games that to you are graphically inferior but to most others have such great game play we don't care the graphics are outdated and blocky. Hopefully this shows you that graphics means F**k all and gameplay is what makes the game. thus why OpenTTD was started by Ludvig in the first place and not a new game from scratch.

a few people on here have mentioned making a true 3d version of the game but nothing more than talk and simple images, videos have been produced. Also if you look at when the 32bpp graphics and OPENGFX where started you'll notice that 32bpp has been active for a lot longer but not complete whereas opengfx is in a finished but changeable state.

[/rant]

To sum up, stop demanding stuff from the developers of this game or any open source/free game, they don't profit from doing this and quite often out of pocket doing so. they have all went out and learned how to program and then came here to work on this.

there is a few options you have here

1. stop demanding stuff and just play the game (after all it's free to you unlike all commercial games)
2. Learn How to program ( you'll at least need to know C++ OOP but will need more than that to work with code this advanced)
3. offer to open a Games studio and pay the developers an hourly/Weekly/Monthly/Yearly wage, then you can make demands (but as stated by someone before this game will only get forked and most people will stick to this version)
4. Learn to draw graphics (guides are on wiki.openttd.org and there is free software out there previously mentioned in this thread (GIMP))
5. Go play the other game and stop bothering the developers of this game with this crap.
6. Turn off the computer, get out of the house and see the real world with it's real Mega-Ultra-HD graphics, maybe even get some love from somewhere if your lucky.

[ChillCore]

Instead here are a few links:
viewforum.php?f=66 and scroll down to "32-bit Graphics Development".
Especially have a look at this topic also: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=56922

Why were you hiding them?

Nobody was hiding anything but you did not ask neither ... Instead of going all flamy on you for not doing research I posted those two links.

Will you now please just startup GIMP or Blender or whatever graphics creation program you prefer and do something else than whine about how HD is going to save the gaming industry ... It won't ... never has and never will.

Unfortunately, I plan to be a programmer not a graphic designer but I'll help as I can in the future.

Fair enough ...
Checkout the source, grab yourself a C++ tutorial (Google has plenty of them) and instead of whining (and telling us how to improve the game and improve OpenTTD's popularity) make some improvements where you think improvements can be made.


BTW, welcome to the forums but please do change that attitude a bit if you want people to talk to you differently (just a friendly hint).


ps:
Please add the names of people you quote. Much easier to follow.

[T_Tycoon]

You want the curves to look more realistic; expand on this as to how you want this and why it is really needed, is it not acceptable that there is diagonal track to allow you to build "fake" curves?

Delete the part of the curves and squares.

T_Tycoon you want HD graphics while not zooming in but want the tiles making bigger to allow them. if you can explain why the extra zoom patch is not how you do this then I'll use my special contacts to get Chris Sawyers and Simon Forster on board to do your demands.

the way we all see it is your asking for HD graphics. WHAT IS the 32bpp graphics project to you then. The term HD in graphics it's better to understand as larger sized graphics (Higher Detail). original graphics are 8bpp so the 32bpp graphics are 16 times bigger (have 16 times as much pixels) than the original 8bpp graphics.

I saw a pictures of the extra zoom. It's what I was searching for.
What about advertising in the game website to ask people to join the project to complete it faster?

Checkout the source, grab yourself a C++ tutorial (Google has plenty of them) and instead of whining (and telling us how to improve the game and improve OpenTTD's popularity) make some improvements where you think improvements can be made.

I'm already doing.

[andythenorth]

Delete the part of the curves and squares.

Why this dislike of curves and squares?

[Expresso]

There are some amazingly ugly games out there, yet people keep playing them. Why would that be? Well, tor starters these games invested in gameplay, not graphics.

Graphics are nice for the initial attraction, but they don't make or.break a game. Openttd has good graphics as it is, but 32bpp graphics can be used. While they DO make the game more beautiful to look at, you'll notice that they don't increase the amount of fun you get from this game.

What would be nice is an opengl blitter (rendering off-loading and some nice USEFUL effects).

Openttd's graphics strike a good balance between easthetics and practicality; a point which many, many games miss to the detriment of their gameplay

[planetmaker]

What would be nice is an opengl blitter (rendering off-loading and some nice USEFUL effects).

What advantage would / could / should it offer?

See also http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=38151

[Expresso]

Lets see the things I can dream up :

• For starters a dynamic magnifying glass (under the cursor everything is viewed at the default zoom level, while further away from the cursor things gradually return to the actual zoom level). UI elements would be exempt from this behavior.
• Things around the cursor could become transparent, so you can edit the parts of your network in the city center or hidden by trees, without having to switch the various invisibility settings all the time. The edge should not be hard (one tile is invisible, while the next is visible) but rather soft (slowly increasing the alpha value... like a hole in a cloud). Sorry, can't explain better what I mean.
• Dynamic transparency for labels? The transparency would increase if the mouse pointer is nearby.
• Flashing vehicles, stations, towns, etc. which produce a news item.... well, ok... this can be done with the current engine too.
• Help for the color-blind.

But erm.... this can be quite hard to implement and I could be wrong on (the opengl requirement) of some items.

[andythenorth]

Lets see the things I can dream up

Everything is monochrome before 1956. Except the GUI. The GUI is monochrome before 1905.