Discussion about electricity (split from ECS)

[Kjell Bjarne]

I have thought about electricity in TTD. Power plants are quiet useless in the economic circuit. This would be other if there were overhead power lines in TTD, but there aren't.

So in my mind it could be interesting to have power plants inside cities. They would picture the supply of electric and thermal power of that single city.

This also would make the game a little bit more realistic. Mostly fuels are transported to power station if you want to use also the thermal power that is produced while the energy production. If that is not the case it is much more efficient to build the power station right there were the energy carrier is raised.

Back to my idea of city power plants. They should only be allowed inside cities. Smaller than the existing ones, the graphics and the amount of consumption. Also no cooling towers, because the heat is used for district heating and not blown into the air. Apart form the realism it is also more challenging for the player because he is forced to transport the fuels to different places. Not like in the present concept of power plants where a single power plant can handle a nearly unlimited amount of fuel.

[kamnet]

For the most part, other than district heating, most power plants that exist inside cities today are there because they were once outside of the city and the city grew around them. It's undesirable to build them inside cities because of the amount of pollution they produce.

The original power plant, although not connected to any other industry chains, exists as a means for a player to develop some income. The ECS Vectors scheme takes this one step further and also allows the delivery of oil, but it's all still dirty business so it's kept outside of towns. Perhaps a smaller scale district heating plant would be a nice option, I'm not sure there's room for it though in this set.

[Kjell Bjarne]

For the most part, other than district heating, most power plants that exist inside cities today are there because they were once outside of the city and the city grew around them. It's undesirable to build them inside cities because of the amount of pollution they produce.

It is not about building these power plants in the middle of a city, what never happens because there is not enough space. But they should get the condition "... should be built on flat land in towns." like factories in FIRS and no more "... should be built far from towns." So power plants cant be placed in the middle of nowhere anymore, where they dont make sense.

[George]

I have thought about electricity in TTD. Power plants are quiet useless in the economic circuit. This would be other if there were overhead power lines in TTD, but there aren't. So in my mind it could be interesting to have power plants inside cities. They would picture the supply of electric and thermal power of that single city. This also would make the game a little bit more realistic. Mostly fuels are transported to power station if you want to use also the thermal power that is produced while the energy production. If that is not the case it is much more efficient to build the power station right there were the energy carrier is raised. Back to my idea of city power plants. They should only be allowed inside cities. Smaller than the existing ones, the graphics and the amount of consumption. Also no cooling towers, because the heat is used for district heating and not blown into the air. Apart form the realism it is also more challenging for the player because he is forced to transport the fuels to different places. Not like in the present concept of power plants where a single power plant can handle a nearly unlimited amount of fuel.

Sounds like a simple eye-candy change. No benefit, imho.

[Hyronymus]

And what about cities need a serviced power plant within i.e. 100 squares to get an additional growth bonus?

[George]

And what about cities need a serviced power plant within i.e. 100 squares to get an additional growth bonus?

Growth bonus depends on cargo, not industry.

[Hyronymus]

So? Be inventive and create an invisible cargo that is secretly produced by power plants .

[Terkhen]

You would need to transport that invisible cargo to towns too.

[Kjell Bjarne]

I have thought about electricity in TTD. Power plants are quiet useless in the economic circuit. This would be other if there were overhead power lines in TTD, but there aren't. So in my mind it could be interesting to have power plants inside cities. They would picture the supply of electric and thermal power of that single city. This also would make the game a little bit more realistic. Mostly fuels are transported to power station if you want to use also the thermal power that is produced while the energy production. If that is not the case it is much more efficient to build the power station right there were the energy carrier is raised. Back to my idea of city power plants. They should only be allowed inside cities. Smaller than the existing ones, the graphics and the amount of consumption. Also no cooling towers, because the heat is used for district heating and not blown into the air. Apart form the realism it is also more challenging for the player because he is forced to transport the fuels to different places. Not like in the present concept of power plants where a single power plant can handle a nearly unlimited amount of fuel.

Sounds like a simple eye-candy change. No benefit, imho.

Looks like I explained my idea not good enough.

My key point is to have power plants that can only consume a small amounth of fuel. So you have to service A LOT different power plants instead of just one or two. In best case one power plant in every city on the map.

[George]

I have thought about electricity in TTD. Power plants are quiet useless in the economic circuit. This would be other if there were overhead power lines in TTD, but there aren't. So in my mind it could be interesting to have power plants inside cities. They would picture the supply of electric and thermal power of that single city. This also would make the game a little bit more realistic. Mostly fuels are transported to power station if you want to use also the thermal power that is produced while the energy production. If that is not the case it is much more efficient to build the power station right there were the energy carrier is raised. Back to my idea of city power plants. They should only be allowed inside cities. Smaller than the existing ones, the graphics and the amount of consumption. Also no cooling towers, because the heat is used for district heating and not blown into the air. Apart form the realism it is also more challenging for the player because he is forced to transport the fuels to different places. Not like in the present concept of power plants where a single power plant can handle a nearly unlimited amount of fuel.

Sounds like a simple eye-candy change. No benefit, imho.

Looks like I explained my idea not good enough.
My key point is to have power plants that can only consume a small amounth of fuel. So you have to service A LOT different power plants instead of just one or two. In best case one power plant in every city on the map.

It does not sound like a power plant, but like a boiler house. I planned to add a house like that, but definitly not a big industry, that power plant is intended to be.
As for power plants to be useful - there is a plan to use electricity when registers and callbacks would be available for towns/map (electricity would be teleported, no transportation would be required).

[michael blunck]

there is a plan to use electricity [...] (electricity would be teleported, no transportation would be required).

Isn´t TTD a transportation game, rather than a teleportation game?

regards
Michael

[George]

there is a plan to use electricity [...] (electricity would be teleported, no transportation would be required).

Isn´t TTD a transportation game, rather than a teleportation game?

DB set would provide wagons to transport 25 tons of electricity?

[michael blunck]

there is a plan to use electricity [...] (electricity would be teleported, no transportation would be required).

Isn´t TTD a transportation game, rather than a teleportation game?

DB set would provide wagons to transport 25 tons of electricity?

If "electricity" and "oil" would need to be "transported" (by wire and pipeline, rather than teleported) it would better fit the game by keeping up the necissity to design and construct those networks.

Introduction of pipelines for oil would be already relatively easy, misusing "tracktypes", but a solution for somewhat "realistic"[tm] power lines would need additional work.

regards
Michael

[George]

Introduction of pipelines for oil would be already relatively easy, misusing "tracktypes"

me doubts. Could you provide the GRF to prove it?

P.S. As soon as whose "lines" would be available, I'll review the "electricity" transportation question.

P.P.S. Now "transporting electricity" in wagons sounds reasonable only for toyland (cargo BATR).

[planetmaker]

Introduction of pipelines for oil would be already relatively easy, misusing "tracktypes"

me doubts. Could you provide the GRF to prove it?

It is indeed quite easy, maybe you want to provide the graphics?

What's needed?
* the rail (= powerline) graphics.
* make sure to also provide a few "spark" vehicles (vehicles which look like sparks or so) which could then transport the electricity. I'd code them as very very fast trains.
* provide depot graphics in the form of transformer or phase shifter units.
* provide dedicated tunnel track tiles which as underlay(!) to existing tunnels (we cannot modify the overlay, or normal tunnels would look funny) indicate an entry of the wires into the earth.
* probably special track / powerline tiles for bridges are also needed (different suspencion). But it should make sure that the sparks can travel smoothly along the tracks, so it must not be dis-continuous.

The only uglyness would be possibly needed signals which so far cannot vary with rail type.

Then it is indeed very easy and I might even code it. The same might be done for oil pipelines in a very similar manner.

[Emperor Jake]

So the "vehicle" for the pipeline would be a little cartoonish "bulge"?
(I believe this has been mentionned before, in a similar discussion)

[George]

Introduction of pipelines for oil would be already relatively easy, misusing "tracktypes"

me doubts. Could you provide the GRF to prove it?

It is indeed quite easy, maybe you want to provide the graphics?

there are pipes here http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=50808

If you would provide good GRF and would not get the permission for the pipes on the link above - I would draw the graphics.

What's needed?
* the rail (= powerline) graphics.

No problem here. SAC already drew them

* make sure to also provide a few "spark" vehicles (vehicles which look like sparks or so) which could then transport the electricity. I'd code them as very very fast trains.

These train would generate too much income or too much loss, that you would ruin the economics. As soon as you could do it without trains - the result would bee good enough to make draw the graphics.

* provide dedicated tunnel track tiles which as underlay(!) to existing tunnels (we cannot modify the overlay, or normal tunnels would look funny) indicate an entry of the wires into the earth.

tunnels should be not allowed to electricity. May be too high cost?

* probably special track / powerline tiles for bridges are also needed (different suspencion). But it should make sure that the sparks can travel smoothly along the tracks, so it must not be dis-continuous.

may be they should be only bridges to allow other roads under them? Then we would need sloped bridges.

The only uglyness would be possibly needed signals which so far cannot vary with rail type.
Then it is indeed very easy and I might even code it. The same might be done for oil pipelines in a very similar manner.

You have mentioned at least 3 big problems. - trains, bridges, signals

It is indeed quite easy

really easy to fix

[DJ Nekkid]

Introduction of pipelines for oil would be already relatively easy, misusing "tracktypes"

me doubts. Could you provide the GRF to prove it?

It is indeed quite easy, maybe you want to provide the graphics?

What's needed?
* the rail (= powerline) graphics.
* make sure to also provide a few "spark" vehicles (vehicles which look like sparks or so) which could then transport the electricity. I'd code them as very very fast trains.
* provide depot graphics in the form of transformer or phase shifter units.
* provide dedicated tunnel track tiles which as underlay(!) to existing tunnels (we cannot modify the overlay, or normal tunnels would look funny) indicate an entry of the wires into the earth.
* probably special track / powerline tiles for bridges are also needed (different suspencion). But it should make sure that the sparks can travel smoothly along the tracks, so it must not be dis-continuous.

The only uglyness would be possibly needed signals which so far cannot vary with rail type.

Then it is indeed very easy and I might even code it. The same might be done for oil pipelines in a very similar manner.

Before you wrote this i had a similar idea, but the best approach might even the that the tracks themselves are entierly blank, but misuse the catenary and poles to make the wires actually be above ground
HOWEVER! as every country that i know of use AC, the ultimate (hackish) approach would probably be a tram-like roadtype with the mentioned catenary, and thus could the sparks go both back and forth in the same array of masts, as i assume theese 'powerlines' would be rather high voltage.
The different "vehicles" could even be different "voltages":
10kv - can carry 10 sparks (spark would be the cargo)
50kv - can carry 50 sparks
300kv - can carry 300 sparks
etc
(im really not sure what the 'normal' trasfer voltages are, but you get the point)

Some nice stations could be transformers. Picture this cargod*st game:
Trains transport coal/oil/lng to a powerplant
From the powerplant there goes a 300kv "line" to the middle of a bunch of industries. from this there goes some 30kv 'lines' to the industries. With power provided is output doubled/tripled/whatever

[Hyronymus]

This will take the game to a totally different level: from vehicle manager to infrastructure manager. I don't think that's something to be liked.

[George]

This will take the game to a totally different level: from vehicle manager to infrastructure manager. I don't think that's something to be liked.

don't you manage you railways infrastructure?

Making pipes/electricity to use vehicles to transport does not sound good to me, but the idea to have infrastructure like that sounds not bad.