Russia-Ukraine Conflict

[Chris]

Something like only the US, the UK and France retain expeditionary capabilities. We also have one of the largest military budgets in the world...

[Zakos]

We also have one of the largest military budgets in the world...

Jesus, don't get me started...

[YNM]

One I heard today is that the Plane that has gone missing recently was "appropriated" by russia to detract away from what is going on in Ukraine.

Had that been true, China - Russia relations must have been severed badly (almost all people aboard are chinese, something like 150 of them !)

A bit silly thing is that the first time my family heard it, most tought of it's shot down or hijacked (my father ruled that out through over time), but later findings makes most of us think it's just due to turbulence or loss of lift due to air condition (a similar thing had happened).

EDIT : Worth noting that there are 2 Ukrainian and 1 Russian aboard.

[bvoice360]

Either way, China is kicking up a big stink over it and the Malaysians say theyve found a door and a bit of wing

[Auge]

*btw* That's the way an election campain should be handled!

Humble. Western election propaganda is always better!

moskau_ruhr_600px.png

regards
Michael

No, not a bit. But makes this the russian propaganda better?

[michael blunck]

Well, it´s over. There was a successful referendum, Crimea declared independance, and Crimea, Sevastopol and Russia today signed a treaty about inclusion into the Russian Federation. And for sure, the next days will see ratification of said treaty by Russian and Crimean parliaments.

The winner is Putin, the US only comes second, and o/c the losers are both the EU leaders and the people of Ukraine, the former being left with political problems, huge costs for financial aid and losses by possible forthcoming sanctions, and the latter being left with heavy economical problems, a questionable de-facto regime, and a problematic social situation.

O/c, there´s also Baroness Ashton, struggling like a toddler, her lolly getting taken away.

regards
Michael

[Chris]

Haha yes a very reliable referendum, where the turnout was the highest ever (83%) even though many groups boycotted it. I think that those people who have boycotted it have been vindicated.

[Wahazar]

Well, it´s over. There was a successful referendum

Oh yes, it was rekord-breaking success: 123% of Sevastopol inhabitants participated in this really successful referendum.

What are your candidates to the next "correction of historical mistakes?

My favourite is to fix 1867 mistake:

[bjgttd]

the US only comes second

How come the US isn't the looser here?

[Hyronymus]

There are no winners in this conflict, as if there ever were in conflicts. I seriously wonder how isolated the G7 can get Russia and how higt the price for Ukranian liberty turns out to be. If Putin fails to prevail for the international eye things may become wicked.

[michael blunck]

Haha yes a very reliable referendum, where the turnout was the highest ever (83%) even though many groups boycotted it. I think that those people who have boycotted it have been vindicated.

Well, turnout of the last referendum we saw, in South Sudan, was even higher: "98.83% of the population voted for independence".

It´s a big mistake to assume a voter fraud. Instead, politicians over here should better think about why an overwhelming majority of the Crimean population decided to (indirectly) join the Russian Federation, rather to stay with Ukraine. It didn´t need any form of "force".

How come the US isn't the looser here?

Because the superior aim of US politics is to avoid the rise of any global power in Eurasia. According (not only) to Zbigniew Brzezinski, only the collapse of the Soviet Union assured the ascendance of the US as the sole global power. In his 1998 book, he describes why control over this region is most crucial, and how the US can prevent emergence of a dominant and antagonistic Eurasian power, to secure US capacity to continue exercising global primacy. [*]

One of the underlying ideas is to keep EU and Russia apart, a goal which had been weakened by development of (mostly economic) ties during the last 15 years.

Obviously, a reprint of isolation of Russia, and a probable imposition of economic sanctions would strengthen the US position, but weaken both EU and Russia. Mind you that things are not exactly as western media are telling us. E.g., there´s no exact accordance between EU member states, since many of them have developed strong economic ties with Russia, while others (the Baltic states, Poland) always had, and still have, reservations against Russia, from historical reasons, and thus are acting always as unconditional allies of US politics. This can (again) clearly be seen in the current events.

Let me point out that Putin´s way to handle the current situation seems quite professional, so far. Especially any "waiving" of the Donbas region (South-Eastern Ukraine) will charge the EU with a load of problems which will bring Russia into play again in the future, anyway. And o/c the US won´t risk anything (except probably just a bit of fiat money). IMO, the EU leaders are clearly acting (again) against interest of the EU as a whole (not necessarily against interest of their own countries in some cases). All in all, a downright silly demonstration, again.

[*] he was also a main attendant at this year´s "Munich Security Conference", together with John Kerry, Klitchko and Yaseniuk.

BTW, I´m still awaiting strong EU sanctions against US and UK, because of violation of sovereignty of EU member states, by illegal eavesdropping millions of EU citizens.

regards
Michael

[Bad Hair Day]

BTW, I´m still awaiting strong EU sanctions against US and UK, because of violation of sovereignty of EU member states, by illegal eavesdropping millions of EU citizens.

But the US and UK are the good guys. They would never misuse the information they gather because they're democracies. Besides, if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.

[YNM]

BTW, I´m still awaiting strong EU sanctions against US and UK, because of violation of sovereignty of EU member states, by illegal eavesdropping millions of EU citizens.

But the US and UK are the good guys. They would never misuse the information they gather because they're democracies. Besides, if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.

... Until it's leaked.

[SquireJames]

BTW, I´m still awaiting strong EU sanctions against US and UK, because of violation of sovereignty of EU member states, by illegal eavesdropping millions of EU citizens.

Germany getting uppity on Human Rights Violations? That's a giggle.

[siu238X]

BTW, I´m still awaiting strong EU sanctions against US and UK, because of violation of sovereignty of EU member states, by illegal eavesdropping millions of EU citizens.

But the US and UK are the good guys. They would never misuse the information they gather because they're democracies. Besides, if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.

IMHO, both comments are severe misunderstanding about the intentions of whoever in power.

Though I do agree that "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear", having something to hide is human nature, or even one of those keeping the society in place -- no matter you like it or not.

[Bad Hair Day]

It seems Russia is now voicing concern over the treatment of ethnic Russians in Estonia. I'm curious as to where this might lead as Estonia is a NATO member and would invoke Article 5 of the NATO charter if Russia pulled a Crimea on them. While I doubt that Russia would actually attempt to occupy Estonia, at least at this point in time, it looks to me like they are testing the water after the rather impotent response from the West with regards to Crimea to see what they can and cannot get away with.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/ ... J620140319

[Wahazar]

I'm curious as to where this might lead as Estonia is a NATO member and would invoke Article 5 of the NATO charter

"Why die for Tallinn?"

[michael blunck]

It seems Russia is now voicing concern over the treatment of ethnic Russians in Estonia. [...]

That´s nothing new. It is already being criticized since years by a number of EU and other bodies[*] that in Estonia, but even more so in Latvia, Russian-speaking people are being discriminated, insofar that still a large number of them are regarded as "non-citizens" with limited rights (e.g. no voting rights). See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-citizens_(Latvia%29#Politics_of_citizenship
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-citizens_(Latvia%29#Council_of_Europe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_n ... itizenship

[*] OSCE, Council of Europe, European Commission against Racism and Intolerance, Framework Convention for the Protection of National Minorities, UN Special Rapporteur on Racism, UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, Amnesty International, ...

regards
Michael

[kamnet]

But the US and UK are the good guys. They would never misuse the information they gather because they're democracies. Besides, if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.

I should have nothing to fear not because I do or do not have anything to hide, but because my government made a promise to its people to respect my privacy and not engage in activities that resulted in our last revolution.

[siu238X]

It seems Russia is now voicing concern over the treatment of ethnic Russians in Estonia. [...]

That´s nothing new. It is already being criticized since years by a number of EU and other bodies[*] that in Estonia, but even more so in Latvia, Russian-speaking people are being discriminated, insofar that still a large number of them are regarded as "non-citizens" with limited rights (e.g. no voting rights). See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-citizens_(Latvia%29#Politics_of_citizenship
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-citizens_(Latvia%29#Council_of_Europe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_n ... itizenship

[*] OSCE, Council of Europe, European Commission against Racism and Intolerance, Framework Convention for the Protection of National Minorities, UN Special Rapporteur on Racism, UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, Amnesty International, ...

regards
Michael

If they have voting rights then both countries will be effectively colonized by Russia.

Hongkongers and Taiwanese are suffering Chinese colonization, and I believe Isreal is having to resist colonization from Arabic countries as well. Not to mention Western European countries or even the United States.

Latvia and Estonia probably will have to expel Russian-speakers some time if they don't want history to repeat.