Track / signal question

[ccomley]

I'm not sure I've got the types of signal straight in my head, the wiki descriptions arn't as clear as the author may think, I fear.

See Picture.

Ignore the top track.

The bottom two tracks on the left merge, then later split to different destinations but for now I care about this location.

If I have a train coming along the bottom of three tracks from left to right, and a train on the bottom track right to left, they both sit and wait for each other until the grass grows. The train from the right COULD go up the centre track on the left, which also leads to the same place. Indeed, if I click the left train and reverse it, it backs off through the station and then the rght train starts and picks the centre track. So why doesnt the right train just go centre track on its own and then the left train can continue once it's passed?

All signals are the default sort - one-way-path.

[ccomley]

Here's the same section with the trains actually out-waiting each other.

[FLHerne]

All signals are the default sort - one-way-path.

Those aren't one-way path signals - if they were, the pairs of signals facing each other would make the track impassable.

The difference between a normal and a one-way path signal is that the former can be passed from the rear (with a pathfinding penalty) while the latter can only be passed from the front.

In this case, it's probable that either:
- The pathfinder cost of the centre track even without a train is higher than that of the lower one with a train. (Unlikely, if the train picks the centre track otherwise).
- Or the signalling to the left (that you haven't shown) blocks both tracks if the lower track is occupied. Like I said in the other thread, you need bigger pictures and/or a savegame.

The root problem is simply that your signalling arrangement is wrong. The space in front of a signal should always be a 'safe'* waiting point, you have signals where this isn't the case.

* i.e. a train waiting here cannot obstruct other trains (ish, get V453000 to explain it properly)

[TERdON]

Since the single-track stretch is so short anyway, I would simply remove the signal there. Or alternatively build a double track all the way, it's only a few tiles missing.

[YNM]

It's the penalty - the penalty of going through a path signal from back is still lower than going through two path signal, one facing the train and the other away from the train (as in your condition). I'd consider just to remove both signal on that short piece of track, or leaving the one that facing out from the station. Neither that the train entering the platform can see the other platforms behind them because the path signal that facing the entering train.

I don't know through, it's still could be labelled as a bug.

[Vinnie_nl]

The penalty of a backwards PBS signal should not affect this kind of station if the track layout was build in a way that the train can overtake the other waiting train. Therefore my best guess would be that the problem in this case is a missing piece of track. A signal error or a problem in the orderlist. I can't be more accurate without a savegame.

[Transportman]

The penalty of a backwards PBS signal should not affect this kind of station if the track layout was build in a way that the train can overtake the other waiting train. Therefore my best guess would be that the problem in this case is a missing piece of track. A signal error or a problem in the orderlist. I can't be more accurate without a savegame.

As soon as the penalty of the track with the waiting train is lower than the bypass, both trains will wait, as the pathfinder has no/little clue about what the other vehicles are doing in terms of direction and movement.

[Vinnie_nl]

The penalty of a backwards PBS signal should not affect this kind of station if the track layout was build in a way that the train can overtake the other waiting train. Therefore my best guess would be that the problem in this case is a missing piece of track. A signal error or a problem in the orderlist. I can't be more accurate without a savegame.

As soon as the penalty of the track with the waiting train is lower than the bypass, both trains will wait, as the pathfinder has no/little clue about what the other vehicles are doing in terms of direction and movement.

If so the solution is simple, the lower train is occupying a piece of track. Fill that with PBS signals in the same direction. Atleast one more then on the bypass track. This way the Bypass track will have a lower penalty.

In screenshot the bypass faces 2 backwards PBS that is 10k Penalty + a curve that is 300 or 600 I'm not sure how the curves count in train pathfinding. This against the short track occupied by the train of one backwards PBS signal of 5000 penalty. in short 5000 penalty versus 10,6k penalty

So the track occupied with lower train needs 2 more backwards PBS penalties from the East according to screenshot. But then the problem will emerge that the trains will always favor the middle track from East. I hope this will be a useful feature otherwise below applies.

So basiclly it means that this track layout will not function until the penalties for both tracks are equal. Wich is near impossible even if you consider the sync tricks from openttdcoop. In short, new track layout will fix it



If you did not mess with the penalty settings for train pathfinder in the openttd config file above penalties should be correct.

[Phrossi_TTD]

i will post pic with right signals and rail setup
soon.
EDIT! here it is, ik the signals are not right but that does not matter

[ISA]

Is there a reason for that zoomed out picture? I cant see nothing what You trying to say.

[Phrossi_TTD]

no, sorry for zoom out.
if you look you will see basic rails but not the signals.