Manchester - Leeds - York Electrification confirmed

[JamieLei]

http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/general/ ... n-and.html

"The DfT said: 'We have given the go-ahead, subject to the business case being confirmed, to Network Rail to electrify the north-Trans Pennine route between Manchester and York via Leeds. This will enable both local and long distance passenger services, and freight trains using this route to be operated by electric trains once the work has been completed.

'We have asked Network Rail to look at the case for electrification between Leeds and Hull, York and Scarborough and Northallerton and Middlesbrough. We will use this information to inform a further announcement about schemes in July 2012.'"

On a semi-related note, I wonder what the threshold is before electrification becomes viable, even on the cheap as Cambridge - Kings Lynn goes. (Aparently according to an industry representative I was talking to last week, before the power supply was improved, only 4-car trains could stop at Waterbeach (between Cambridge and Ely) since there wouldn't be enough juice to get an 8-car set moving from a standstill). The Snow Hill lines would initially be an obvious choice for electrification due to 6 trains an hour on the core section but the greater network would be too large to put up wires for 1tph to Stratford or Worcester).

[Kevo00]

One thing is clear - the more electrification there is, the more the marginal cost of having electric trains falls because critical mass improves and you get more network effects, as long as you don't electrify silly lines like the Whitby branch.

[Pilot]

Any idea what stock would be used for this?

[61653]

Well, FTPE are getting a few Desiros for the Manchester-Scotland services, so maybe there'll be an addition to that run to keep costs down. Failing that I guess it'll be 317s & 321s handed back by NXEA and FCC when they get their shiny new Thameslink units...

Of course it also means that the rather nice (once they have that horrid purple interior replaced) 185s will move to routes they'll be more suited to, and by that I'm thinking Highland Mainline, Cambrian lines, and the Cardiff-Portsmouth/Brighton routes that are less likely to be electrified. A 3-car 185 is woefully inadequate for Leeds-Huddersfield-Manchester, and there's not enough units for many 6-car formations- But for Birmingham-Aberystwyth running hourly, maybe every alternate service running as 6 & splitting at Machynlleth for Pwllheli (at least in high-season) they'd be brilliant. Likewise running Edinburgh/Glasgow-Inverness/Aberdeen they'd be a great improvement on the 158s, maybe not so much with the 170s. Of course there's TPE's 9 170s that'll be available too, but I'd imagine they'll join some of their classmates at AXC or in Scotland. Hopefully the Huddersfield stoppers will get Electric replacements too, even if it's just a 313/315. We'll probably still have 142s bouncing along under the wires though!

[JamieLei]

AFAIK the 170s are used to Hull where the 185s would be too heavy for the line. It's a shame that Windermere won't be considered since most of that route will be under the wires. Hull would be a sensible choice since it would also allow the ECML services to convert.

[Ameecher]

TPE only have the 170s because some at the DfT ballsed up and ordered a whole fleet of trains for a new franchise and then made the franchise bigger, they've just focused the 170s on one route where track damage would be more of an issue, there is nothing barring 185s from that route.
As for TPE getting desiros for the Scottish services, nothing has been signed yet pending electrification announcements, more likely that a different order of 380s will be made for the whole TPE franchise but it's all up in the air at the minute.

[audigex]

380s for the whole TPE franchise? It takes long enough to get to Barrow without having to push the train from Carnforth.

Electrifying to windermere would be a waste. Far more sensible would be to cut out the Manchester-Windermere diagram completely and put in a shuttle service Oxenholme-Windermere or Lancaster-Windermere. The half empty 185s used for Windermere would be far better off extending Manchester-Scotland 185s to 6 car formations. They could still be used by those going to Windermere, but the capacity would be better utilised.

It's excellent timing to electrify Manchester-Leeds, though - that route needs significantly more capacity than the 185s can supply, electrifying while you've got to replace the rolling stock anyway is one of the most intelligent things I've heard from Network Rail lately.

[61653]

I agree. Like I said before the 185s are unsuitable for intercity services between such densely populated areas, but then this has been a problem since the loco-hauled services ended in 1992. Even with the increase in frequency since then, during the day there's 8 standard class coaches per hour on fast services between Leeds and Manchester, as opposed to 10-12 standard class Mk2s per hour in 1990. 185s would be brilliant on the Highland Main line, the Cambrian or the Welsh Marches line (though I'd reconfigure the 1st class section to the far end of the other driving car). When MTL originally reintroduced 1st class on it's 158s, the ORR/SRA ought to have stepped in and prevented this, as it made overcrowding significantly worse. When I see TPE services passing through near home, there is standing in the standard class areas pretty much all day, and first class is pretty much empty. If when the wires come we're gonna have 380s or similar, I'd be using the original configuration of class 442s as a blueprint. It makes no sense to replace buffet counters with trolleys as XC/FGW have- a trolley is useless if it's busy, and that'll be one of the reasons the catering contractors for MTL went bust in the late 90s before even MTL did.

[Pilot]

Any reason why Rail Express (don't know about the others) Differs.
Section in question:
Title simply says Manchester - Leeds to be Electrified.

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(Sorry about rubbish image)

[61653]

I think Neville Hill-Colton Junction is already planned for wires as part of improvements for the ECML and to boost capacity at Leeds City along with building the proposed East Leeds Parkway, but I might be wrong...