First TPEx Guard Assaulted

[Dave]

Was walking to the train station to pick up Fiona on Friday evening when she text me saying "stuck on the train at chorley, something's happening on the platform".

Was made aware of a passenger disturbance by platform staff at Preston whilst fending off the advances of a drunken black guy for a very shy girl who seemed mortified by the idea.

Train's expected status shifted from 2214 (was due 2206) to "Delayed", and there was uproar. The train eventually arrived 37 late at 2243, and departed 3 minutes later. The best of it was the train on the service back down was awaiting the driver of the train coming up to swap, so there was a delay on the train to the airport of 22 minutes. Rowdy, drunken northerners being told they're not going anywhere doesn't go down well at all.

Turns out the guard on the train coming up was subject to a pretty serious assault, although I don't know why that was. Replacement was found and quickly got himself to Chorley and everything else continued.

Very strange situation.

[vitriolism]

Was made aware of a passenger disturbance by platform staff at Preston whilst fending off the advances of a drunken black guy for a very shy girl who seemed mortified by the idea.

Was there really any need to mention the ethnicity of the man in question? I fear it adds nothing to your account and is liable to appear antagonistic.

[Ploes]

Was made aware of a passenger disturbance by platform staff at Preston whilst fending off the advances of a drunken black guy for a very shy girl who seemed mortified by the idea.

Was there really any need to mention the ethnicity of the man in question? I fear it adds nothing to your account and is liable to appear antagonistic.

Is there any need to draw attention to the fact that Dave used a word to mearlly expand his dicription on the situation he was in or was that an atempt to appear antagonistic?

Why are you not objecting to the fact he pointed out he was a man?

<back on topic>

Random situation to be in Dave. Any wonder you have driverd refusing to operate without gards/ticket enforment officers on their trains, and then TOCs having issues recruting gards/ticket enforment officers!!

[vitriolism]

Of course, very true. Or even that comment on Northerners. I'd just advise caution since mentioning the sex of the person is less likely to be read as a slur than pronouncing his racial characteristics.

[Dave]

As it stands, the colour of the man was very important since he was describing what it was like in England, despite the fact he was originally from Jamaica.

He was black - what do you think I'm going to say?

And to be honest, I'm not really all that bothered, if you infer that I'm a racist because I possibly mentioned the skin colour of the man in question you're clearly being over-politically correct.

[JamieLei]

I thought it was OK for Dave to mention the race as he didn't give any opinion on it. Therefore it was just a fact and no racism at all.

Some trains are not permitted to run as Drivers Only Operation (DOO), as the guard has an important role in the running of the train. Chiltern Railway employ DOO between Banbury and London, but north of Banbury, a guard is required for the train to run. On ScotRail, some DOO trains are mandated to be fitted with CCTV - if the CCTV malfunctions, the train is not allowed to run as there's noone watching over the passenger accommodation at periodic intervals.

More info about DOO can be found here at the Office of Rail Regulation.

[Dave]

No DOO would ever be permitted on services between Manchester and Preston/Blackpool/Windermere - it'd be suicide.

[Ameecher]

The reason DOO is used north of Banbury is because on that section Chiltern have a lot of revenue to lose. Everywhere south (correct me if I'm wrong) has ticket barriers at the station.

[Kevo00]

To be fair, even if a guard is on a train it is no guarantee that fares will be collected - I haven traveled free on numerous occasions, particularly in Scotland at the weekends or in evenings when station ticket offices are shut. Its good that barriers are being brought in more and more, because this is no longer possible, and it makes guards actually do their job too - I have seen guards sit and read the paper while people get on and off without paying before. Some unstaffed lines probably loose quite a bit of income over this, which is not wise as these lines are the ones that can afford to loose income least!

[JamieLei]

The reason DOO is used north of Banbury is because on that section Chiltern have a lot of revenue to lose.

South of Banbury you mean - and I can agree with that, although I've been on numerous trains where tickets have been checked just after leaving London. As CDRs to London are rejected (or were when I used one) at the gates, I've now become accustomed to using a travelcard to get through the gates. I now do the same each time I enter a mainline station.

There's been a huge increase in fare evasion on the Chiltern line for this very reason, with people using Annual Oyster Season Tickets, and then boarding the first-stop-High Wycombe trains. A huge team of Revenue Protection Inspectors have been employed to combat this very problem.

[vitriolism]

As it stands, the colour of the man was very important since he was describing what it was like in England, despite the fact he was originally from Jamaica.

Well that might be the case but you didn't note that in your appraisal of the situation. I still don't quite follow this comment though, why is colour important where a Jamaican is describing what it is like in England?

And to be honest, I'm not really all that bothered, if you infer that I'm a racist.

I did not infer that you were a racist. I simply asked a question that I thought was relevant given that I could not possibly see any reason for the mention.

I thought it was OK for Dave to mention the race as he didn't give any opinion on it. Therefore it was just a fact and no racism at all.

I completely agree with you, JameiLei. Once again I was not making acusations of racism, merely being concerned about the way the story was put across.


As far as the driver/guard issue goes, whether the train is operating with just the former or both does not necessarily have any effect on the security of the train. Clearly in this particular case there is evidence to support this: the Guard was subject to an assault. I'd suggest that CCTV is a more relevant and useful deterrent to crime. Are the cameras monitored by the TOC or the BTP?

[Dave]

Incessantly by the TOC. Shameful thing is that Chorley is managed by Northern not TPE, so it'll require co-operation.

[Beardie]

Incessantly by the TOC. Shameful thing is that Chorley is managed by Northern not TPE, so it'll require co-operation.

I hate the Northern Rail Ticket women at the office in Chorley, she keeps getting angry when me and my Friends pay separately.

I think it should be run by First TPEx too, it just seems to me that they are a more Professional company.

[Dave]

More services operated from the station by Northern though. I do believe it's the first station to fall outside GMPTE's area?

[Beardie]

Its weird how i hadn't heard of this story, since i use that train station and live a mile away from it, well i do know that for about 6 weeks they are going to close the line between Chorley and Leyland and put a replacement bus service between Chorley and Preston on.

[Dave]

Its weird how i hadn't heard of this story, since i use that train station and live a mile away from it, well i do know that for about 6 weeks they are going to close the line between Chorley and Leyland and put a replacement bus service between Chorley and Preston on.

Currently in effect between Bolton and Preston on Sundays - trains from Manchester currently diverted at Salford Crescent via Walkenden to the West Coast Main Line at Wigan North Western and then Euxton and Leyland, although trains are currently running non-stop from Salford.

[Beardie]

Maybe this i why Class 185s are coming past my house (Euxton) on sundays, i was wondering why.

[Dave]

Indeed, although a couple of 185s are due via Wigan early/late in the day. The single Voyager service between Manchester and Glasgow are via Wigan North Western too.

[Beardie]

I also read there is a service between Liverpool and Scarborough.

[Dave]

There is, but this doesn't go via Wigan, Euxton and Preston. The average TPEx service to Scarborough goes via Warrington Central, Manchester Piccadilly, Stalybridge, Huddersfield and Leeds on the way to Scarborough.