Electric Rails

sc79 · Post by **sc79** » 06 May 2006 03:28

Does anyone else find these a total pain to use?

The graphics make it harder to see detail. Cables make junctions even more confusing, and the poles cover signals half the time (and because they're placed randomly, i cant even use signals on the opposite side of the tracks).

However, on large areas of track, it becomes very difficult to pick out the difference between normal and electric track, especially on diagonal sections. Its especially noticable when upgrading rails, and even harder when dragging over a big area, because it skips sections with trains. The only (pretty crappy) solution is to drag over the same area, usually with FF on because trains have to clear platforms etc, 5-10 times until I can be fairly sure all squares are covered.

And just for some extra fun, it defaults back to standard track every time you start/load a game. Im starting to hate this 'feature' more than just about anything else in OTTD.

MeusH · Post by **MeusH** » 06 May 2006 08:05

I don't like these graphics, too.
I think a replacement graphics would be nice, with kind of blue tracks instead of pylons and the wires.

I also think about a signal replacement because my eyes hurt when I try to distinguish exit and combo signals. Plus, it's impossible to check signal when it points southbounds... just an idea... I'll just need to take a look at how are other signal sets done.

Brianetta · Post by **Brianetta** » 06 May 2006 10:22

A newgrf to replace the sprites is all you need. You can even use such a cosmetic newgrf on an internet game, without everyone having to have it.

ElectricA4 · Post by **ElectricA4** » 16 May 2006 10:17

I have a question about Electric Rails.

As I am under the impression that Erails are going to be in 0.4.8 when it's released, I am wondering if there will be an option not to have them in a game if you don't want them?

bobingabout · Post by **bobingabout** » 16 May 2006 11:05

i asked this, people thought i was crazy.

but yes, there should be a way to play OTTD and use the electric engines on none electric track if thats what you choose to do.

gkirilov · Post by **gkirilov** » 16 May 2006 11:17

Well, I don't mind using elrails (in terms of being more expensive and so on). I just don't like the grf. It's messing up everything (signals being the extreme example). If there was a way to disable the overhead wires and the pilons it would be great.

ElectricA4 · Post by **ElectricA4** » 16 May 2006 14:03

bobingabout wrote:... there should be a way to play OTTD and use the electric engines on none electric track if thats what you choose to do.

I hope so, although I couldn't find an option in the MiniIN.

I'm not against Elrails, but I know that mostly I'd rather play without them.

DaleStan · Post by **DaleStan** » 16 May 2006 15:22

gkirilov wrote:Well, I don't mind using elrails (in terms of being more expensive and so on). I just don't like the grf. It's messing up everything (signals being the extreme example). If there was a way to disable the overhead wires and the pilons it would be great.

Decode elrailsw.grf and edit the sprites. Then encode the changed sprites, and your pylons, wires, &c. will be changed and/or removed, whatever you chose.

ElectricA4 wrote:I'm not against Elrails, but I know that mostly I'd rather play without them.

Hm... sounds like Open might need YAPO.

Loop · Post by **Loop** » 16 May 2006 20:05

I second the motion - it would be really nice, to disable the el_rails, so one could play OTTD without them (with electric engines on ordinary track).

Dunno, but I think that it wouldn't be a big thing to code a switch, and an option in the... options

Brianetta · Post by **Brianetta** » 16 May 2006 20:42

...but electric trains can't run on unelectrified track...

In my not very humble opinion, OpenTTD has finally fixed one of the most long-standing bugs, dating back from the original Transport Tycoon in 1994.

Loop · Post by **Loop** » 16 May 2006 20:58

Brianetta wrote:...but electric trains can't run on unelectrified track...

But this is only a game

And I don't know, what is amusing in changing hundreds of trains and tracks 3 times during the game :/ A huge pain in the neck it is.

gkirilov · Post by **gkirilov** » 16 May 2006 21:25

I don't mind doing that (you have the rail convert tool + the train and wagon auto replace).
There is almost no problem to go from the normal rail to elrail since the normal(diesel and steam) trains can enter the el.depot. The problems come after that - to mono and maglev.
The only problem for me are the overhead wires and the pillars(which I'll solve very soon).

sc79 · Post by **sc79** » 16 May 2006 21:46

In my not very humble opinion, OpenTTD has finally fixed one of the most long-standing bugs, dating back from the original Transport Tycoon in 1994.

E-rails, as it stands currently, is a case where realism has been added, not just with little-to-no benifit, but where gameplay actually suffers from it imo.
Realism is good and all, but i'll take playability first 99% of the time.

Decode elrailsw.grf and edit the sprites. Then encode the changed sprites, and your pylons, wires, &c. will be changed and/or removed, whatever you chose.

Im not an artist. While you may consider it easy, doing new (or modified) graphics which look realistic is something I have almost no chance of doing. You cant just remove the electric sprites, because then theres no difference between normal and electric rails. I cant even edit the standard track to make it stand out (since I use mostly electric, it wouldnt matter so much if it looked crap after 1950 or so), because the electric sprites are just placed over the top.

DaleStan · Post by **DaleStan** » 16 May 2006 22:18

When did I say I was an artist?

If I were to do something like that, I'd probably leave the support poles and color everything else (wires and horizontal supports) invisible blue.

Brianetta · Post by **Brianetta** » 16 May 2006 22:55

Loop wrote:
Brianetta wrote:...but electric trains can't run on unelectrified track...
But this is only a game ;)

And I don't know, what is amusing in changing hundreds of trains and tracks 3 times during the game :/ A huge pain in the neck it is.

Um... you can change to electric rails without having to replace your trains. In fact, in my games I rarely electrify my entire network.

As for monorail and maglev? I only use them for small suburban passenger systems, even when I'm not using UKRS. I might use the rail upgrade tool on a short stretch of suburban track to this end, but my main network is, and remains, conventional rail until 2090 - just as it will on planet Earth.

I welcome the realism, as much as there is. I just look forward to there being some financial incentive not to use electrified rails sometimes, after they come out.

sc79 · Post by **sc79** » 17 May 2006 00:23

Well, unless something like this gets added, its still an extra hassle for the sake of realism.

2/3 rail types (monorail especially) are already barely used, mostly because of the difficulty of upgrading existing networks, but a 4th was deemed necessary, and so much so that theres not even an option to turn it off.

I agree with you that if electric rails had some noticable differences over normal rail (cost, necessity to conect power etc), it might add more to the game. But even then, not everyone wants to play every game with 100% realism. As it stands currently, it does very little except divide existing trains over 2 track types which are identical in gameplay terms, and compound what i think is one of the most disliked aspects of the game.

When did I say I was an artist?
If I were to do something like that, I'd probably leave the support poles and color everything else (wires and horizontal supports) invisible blue.

Where did I claim you were?

Thats not going to fix the problem in the screenshot, and its only going to increase the problem of telling which sections of track are electric and which arnt.

DaleStan · Post by **DaleStan** » 17 May 2006 01:42

sc79 wrote:2/3 rail types (monorail especially) are already barely used, mostly because of the difficulty of upgrading existing networks, but a 4th was deemed necessary, and so much so that theres not even an option to turn it off.

/me waves Cht:Tracks and a 593 line, 32.4KiB ttdpatch.cfg at the OpenTTD developers, and suggests that he might not be the only one who thinks that they are both good ideas.

sc79 wrote:Thats not going to fix the problem in the screenshot, and its only going to increase the problem of telling which sections of track are electric and which arnt.

Then what's the problem, exactly? I thought the problem was that the wires and supports created a messy image.

If I'm trying to solve something that isn't a problem, my solutions aren't going to be satisfactory.

gkirilov · Post by **gkirilov** » 17 May 2006 07:16

Fixing the problem is a 5 minutes work (did it yesterday before going to bed)

. Tonight I'll post the new grf that I made.

It's a matter of replacing the sprites with blue(transparent). I replaced only some of them so you won't be able to see some of the wires and (i think all) pillars. But there are some left - the one that do not get in the way of seeing other things like signals.

bobingabout · Post by **bobingabout** » 17 May 2006 08:27

well, elrails in TTDP is optional, you can play the game without it if you want.

therefore it should also be optional in OTTD

then again i think that every option in TTDP that OTTD uses simular features should also be as costomisable in OTTD as it is in TTDP instead of just an on and off switch. there are billions of combinations of settings in TTDP, but mere thousands in OTTD...

for example, realistic acceleration, its either on or its off, making you choose between max speed around corners, and slow on hills, or slow around corners, and good speed on hills.
in TTDP you can choose to do that, max speed everywhere, reduced speed everywhere but stright flat tracks, and many more inbetween...

Moriarty · Post by **Moriarty** » 17 May 2006 09:02

I'm in agreement that Electric rails isn't necessarily a good thing. Sure they're realistic, but that doesn't mean they're good for the game because their gameplay benefits are small to negligble.

Benefits:
a) Realistic
b) Another track type

Disadvantages:
1) Requires effort on part of player to upgrade so can use electric trains (even more effort until the bug that stops upgrading tracks with a train on is fixed).

2) It's sometimes hard to see if it's el-rails or not.

Personally, whenever I'm upgrading any tracks I just do the entire map at once so from a gameplay perspective I gain nothing other than more "work" (which isn't a good thing).

So yes, I believe it should be a on/off able option.

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