The so-called best webring. My views on it...

[Edward Bernard]

I thought I'd have a surf around the main webring, the one which I link to
from my site, and it was the worst 29.8p (phone bill) +VAT 17.5% = 35.015 =
36p (BT round up and never down) i've ever spent in my life. Shall I
enlighten you...

1) It's full of dead links and pages saying, just new, when they were
created last year

2) Some of them have really poor HTML design layouts, images running into
one another

3) A lot take ages to load. I waited 2 minutes for a site to load, and all
it was was a huge BMP in the middle. BMP!!! not JPG! Fool!

4) Some haven't been updated in years

5) They say they've got screenshots (which I was after) and none of them
have

6) A lot are repetitive. I didn't realise so many people used the same green
squares background. Even I'm guilty as charged.

I could go on. We really need to get ourselves an official TTNG backed
webring, and we'll have to properly maintain it. Anyone on the ring whose
site hasn't been updated in three months maybe, has their entry removed.
Having said this, there are a few good ones, but these are rare.

Are you all with me?

Eddie

[Patchman]

In article <7v2kd2$3q...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, Edward Bernard says...

I thought I'd have a surf around the main webring, the one which I link to
from my site, and it was the worst 29.8p (phone bill) +VAT 17.5% = 35.015 =
36p (BT round up and never down) i've ever spent in my life. Shall I
enlighten you...

[snip good points - now that I've finally seen them ]

I could go on. We really need to get ourselves an official TTNG backed
webring, and we'll have to properly maintain it. Anyone on the ring whose
site hasn't been updated in three months maybe, has their entry removed.
Having said this, there are a few good ones, but these are rare.

Are you all with me?

OK, that's the problem with all the rings out there. If you don't have
an active maintainer it will be decomposing.

There's a few solutions:
- make your own webring (try http://www.webring.org ), this has the
problem that you have to get all the sites to join your ring. And if you
really want the ring to keep high quality you have to actively maintain
it - checking up on sites, setting rules etc.

- ask James S. Baughn if he would give up maintenance of the existing
ring (email is webmas...@i-want-a-website.com ). I don't think it's
unlikely that you'll get it, just be polite. You'd still have the work
of throwing out the bad sites, possibly mailing people a warning first
(it's only polite).


On the good/bad sites: not updating for three months can hardly be
considered a valid reason for throwing them out. Many of the good TTD
sites haven't been updated in a long time, but they still offer valuable
information. For example, Chris Doherty's "Railway Design" at
http://www.sgi.net/zeppelin/ttdlx/frames.html hasn't been updated in
years but it's where I learned how to build an all-interconnected network
that *works*.

Good information doesn't get bad with time.

On bad HTML/spelling/layout/whatever, I don't think it should be a reason
either. Mail the site owner stating what you like and what not, and most
importantly, give *constructive* criticism. Just saying "your site is
bad" helps nobody. So you need guidelines on good design, which is a
science all by itself, and be helpful to the webmasters. It will be
almost a huge site instead of a webring, and you'll have most of the
work.


Now, I'm not saying we shouldn't have a webring, but if you really want
to have and, more importantly, keep it high quality, it's going to be a
lot of work. And I'm afraid I wouldn't have the time to devote to such a
project.

--
Josef Drexler | http://publish.uwo.ca/~jdrexler/
---------------------------------+---------------------------------------
Please help Conserve Gravity | To email me, please change the country
Play Chess, not Basketball. | code to .ca - Death to Spammers!

[QBDM13]

I'm not so sure about the so called web ring, but I did find a rather good TTD
page awhile ago... I don't remember it though.
QBDM13

[Steven Lalewicz]

Edward Bernard wrote in message <7v2kd2$3q...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>...

I thought I'd have a surf around the main webring, the one which I link to
from my site, and it was the worst 29.8p (phone bill) +VAT 17.5% = 35.015 =
36p (BT round up and never down) i've ever spent in my life. Shall I
enlighten you...

[snip]

Before I came to this group, I spent quite a bit of time browsing through
the web ring.

It was quite annoying finding all the broken links.

Another bad thing was all the incomplete sites. I sympathise because, it is
hard work putting a really good web site together and sometimes you don't
realise how much it will cost in time to realise your dream (and if you
still want one, you have to spend more time with the
partner,work,school,kids whoever)! Then keeping the web site fresh, is
equally tough. So I'm not surprised when I see the problems which exist.

I certainly agree about the comment about repetition.

However there are several good web sites. These days I'm also saying to
myself not only read a ng's FAQ, but surf the webring of the topic you are
interested in too.

Here is another good site I found on the webring (I think which has been
mentioned before) TT semi-faq http://i-want-a-website.com/about-tt/toc.html.

If I have one thing to say about a FAQ for this NG. You could save yourself
a lot of work for the strategy section by referencing the really good web
sites.

For some reason I thought most people here would have know about the
webring. I saw quite a few mentions of this ng on it when I came here I
thought I'd see more of the people who authored the various sites.

(I saw Josef's site on the webring).

I've also read Josef's comments and agree with them.

I think it would be a great idea to have a webring associated with this ng.
Forming it out of the one which already exists I think might be a better way
to go rather than starting a new one.

Regards,
Steve.

Eddie

[Boudewijn Dijkstra]

Edward Bernard <Edw...@ebernard.greatxscape.net> schreef in berichtnieuws
7v2kd2$3q...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...

I thought I'd have a surf around the main webring, the one which I link to
from my site, and it was the worst 36p i've ever spent in my life. Shall I
enlighten you...

...

I could go on. We really need to get ourselves an official TTNG backed
webring, and we'll have to properly maintain it. Anyone on the ring whose
site hasn't been updated in three months maybe, has their entry removed.
Having said this, there are a few good ones, but these are rare.

Are you all with me?

I don't know the URL of the main webring, neither the one of your website,
but I am with you, provided what you mentioned was the truth, and you give
my your URL.
(mine: http://www.bdijkstra.tmfweb.nl)

[Edward Bernard]

OK, that's the problem with all the rings out there. If you don't have
an active maintainer it will be decomposing.

Well we would on here. Especially as we can all contact each other easily.
I'm not going to disappear suddenly!

There's a few solutions:
- make your own webring (try http://www.webring.org ), this has the
problem that you have to get all the sites to join your ring. And if you
really want the ring to keep high quality you have to actively maintain
it - checking up on sites, setting rules etc.

That's what I was thinking in my earlier post

- ask James S. Baughn if he would give up maintenance of the existing
ring (email is webmas...@i-want-a-website.com ). I don't think it's
unlikely that you'll get it, just be polite. You'd still have the work
of throwing out the bad sites, possibly mailing people a warning first
(it's only polite).

I'll try, but I'll only end up getting rejected. Competition brings out the
best in people. He may suddenly bring his webring to life!

On the good/bad sites: not updating for three months can hardly be
considered a valid reason for throwing them out. Many of the good TTD
sites haven't been updated in a long time, but they still offer valuable
information. For example, Chris Doherty's "Railway Design" at
http://www.sgi.net/zeppelin/ttdlx/frames.html hasn't been updated in
years but it's where I learned how to build an all-interconnected network
that *works*.

OK. These were only preliminary ideas. They are of course, all up for
discussion, debate, amendment etc.
If a site contains relavent information which isn't possible to be updated,
for example strategy guides like you said, then their fixture should be
indefinate. I was referring to sites which were advertising competitions
from years ago, and those which said, "Be ready soon" and the date said 1997

On bad HTML/spelling/layout/whatever, I don't think it should be a reason
either. Mail the site owner stating what you like and what not, and most
importantly, give *constructive* criticism. Just saying "your site is
bad" helps nobody. So you need guidelines on good design, which is a
science all by itself, and be helpful to the webmasters. It will be
almost a huge site instead of a webring, and you'll have most of the
work.

Of course. I agree entirely. This was just to demonstrate some of the things
on the ring.
Our regular experts on HTML could give advice to ring members perhaps?

Now, I'm not saying we shouldn't have a webring, but if you really want
to have and, more importantly, keep it high quality, it's going to be a
lot of work. And I'm afraid I wouldn't have the time to devote to such a
project.

I know it'll be hard work, so we'll have to put 110% effort into it. Thanks
for all your opinions, they're all very appreciated.

Eddie

[Edward Bernard]

I don't know the URL of the main webring, neither the one of your website,
but I am with you, provided what you mentioned was the truth, and you give
my your URL.
(mine: http://www.bdijkstra.tmfweb.nl)

My site is http://www.ttworld.itgo.com (It is in fact the official NG site. Not
official as declared by Microprose, but official in that the whole NG is
behind it, and we work together in sorting out probs)

Eddie

[Edward Bernard]

Another bad thing was all the incomplete sites. I sympathise because, it
is
hard work putting a really good web site together and sometimes you don't
realise how much it will cost in time to realise your dream (and if you
still want one, you have to spend more time with the
partner,work,school,kids whoever)! Then keeping the web site fresh, is
equally tough. So I'm not surprised when I see the problems which exist.

I find it tough updating my site. Some weeks nothing will change. Last week
there we're lots though. It is possible, but you need a lot of time to do
it.

I certainly agree about the comment about repetition.

However there are several good web sites. These days I'm also saying to
myself not only read a ng's FAQ, but surf the webring of the topic you are
interested in too.

I admitted this. TTWorld Depot was an excellent site, and well designed.

Here is another good site I found on the webring (I think which has been
mentioned before) TT semi-faq
http://i-want-a-website.com/about-tt/toc.html.

That is actually a plug for the ringmasters website

If I have one thing to say about a FAQ for this NG. You could save
yourself
a lot of work for the strategy section by referencing the really good web
sites.

Well, we'll see if we can convince them into joining ours.

For some reason I thought most people here would have know about the
webring. I saw quite a few mentions of this ng on it when I came here I
thought I'd see more of the people who authored the various sites.

I only realised it existed when someone mentioned it a couple of months ago.

(I saw Josef's site on the webring).

I've also read Josef's comments and agree with them.

I agree with all his points too

I think it would be a great idea to have a webring associated with this
ng.
Forming it out of the one which already exists I think might be a better
way
to go rather than starting a new one.

Competitions brings out the best in people is my motto. He may give it over,
he may not, but if he doesn't, it may give him incentive to work on his.

Thanks for the opinions,

Eddie

[Vernon Moorhouse]

[SNIP]

On the good/bad sites: not updating for three months can hardly be
considered a valid reason for throwing them out. Many of the good TTD
sites haven't been updated in a long time, but they still offer valuable
information. For example, Chris Doherty's "Railway Design" at
http://www.sgi.net/zeppelin/ttdlx/frames.html hasn't been updated in
years but it's where I learned how to build an all-interconnected network
that *works*.

Good information doesn't get bad with time.

[SNIP]

Agree. I'm still building my website (inc. a very short section on TT so

I wouldn't even consider putting it in the ring) and some of the
original pages are already six months old.

If it ain't broke etc...
--
Vernon Moorhouse

Visit my Web site at http://www.moorhouse0.demon.co.uk/homepage.htm

(Remove nospam from my email to reply).