Major parts of Thameslink project nearing completion

[Geo Ghost]

Thanks mate. Much appreciated Are they all a set height from the ground?

[Dave]

Thanks mate. Much appreciated Are they all a set height from the ground?

Think they're all a set height from the minimum wire height. Maybe.

[MjD]

Thanks mate. Much appreciated Are they all a set height from the ground?

As Dave said its a set safe distance from the Overhead lines, the rule book doesn't state the actual distance but I do presume its the same for all units/locos.

[TheGrew]

*Piccies*

But back on topic.

Alan, if you want to build new stock for the Moorgate branch, what is wrong with the S Stock?

@A321Pilot - I wouldn't trust anything.

I actually like that idea, assuming the S stock was short enough and could have a pantograph fitted.

[Geo Ghost]

I have been on the Northern City Line by the way!

Congratulations. You've been 5 stops on an inner-London branch line. Have a cookie.

How do you know the stations can be extended? Over half of them are underground. If they can only take 6 coaches, you expect the tunnel to be dug out further for two extra coaches? That would be incredible expensive in that space.

There is a lack of clear evidence over if the 319s are bigger than the 313s!

Yes, and there's also no evidence to say they are smaller either. So can we drop that one until either party have solid evidence? Whilst I'm certain 319s are taller based on comparing the shape and photos plus information, nothing is 100% certain. Even if we did get proof, this would still go round and round in circles probably.

[Ameecher]

TSO - 11ft 6 1/2in (3.58m) so there is a 12 cm difference, whether this is enough to mean other stock isn't permitted to Moorgate I don't know but there is a difference which in the world of gauging and particularly track replacement is a hell of a difference.

But the 319s are of a different design then the 313/315/315/507 trains

Yes, but a Transit is a different design to a Corsa and I think, correct me if I'm wrong, but they're different heights.

[Chris]

Alan, if you want to build new stock for the Moorgate branch, what is wrong with the S Stock?

@A321Pilot - I wouldn't trust anything.

They are not designed for Inner suburban services (hence not a good idea for the longer services of the Met Line)

Actually they are suitable for the Metropolitan Line. The only reason there was a bit of a controversy was because at one point, there was talk about there only being longitudinal seating, however if you have paid any attention to their introduction or been on them then you'll have realized that they all have transverse seating on the Met.

And even if you still think they're not a good idea, why don't you ask the people who travel on them regularly. I don't think anybody preferred the A60/62 stock which smelled of p*** and had damp seats .

[GurraJG]

I can't claim to have travelled a lot on the Metropolitan line, but I've travelled on it enough times to say that the S stock is much better than A stock. And I doubt anyone who uses the Metropolitan line often would disagree.

[Ameecher]

Arguably, the 319s aren't good for regular start stop services, aside from between St Pancras and London Bridge, all the stations are far apart and high track speeds between and that is what the 319 is designed for, the all shacks services on the ECML would be a waste of their potential.

[JamieLei]

I can't claim to have travelled a lot on the Metropolitan line, but I've travelled on it enough times to say that the S stock is much better than A stock. And I doubt anyone who uses the Metropolitan line often would disagree.

I will miss the bouncy seats though. Sitting down and still feeling the reverberation waves from the springs 3 seconds later will always be fun. That and lying down on the 3-across seat when I'm tired.

[Chris]

Oh, the suspension on those trains was amazing, when they weren't limited to 50mph then they really did bounce you around!

Edit: spelling

[Ploes]

Why S class stock?

Wouldn't 2009 stock be a better candidate if you must use LUL stock on a TL?

[Nawdic]

What was involved with changing the Moorgate line from LT to NR operation - If I remember, werent LT using '59 stock on the branch?

[Ameecher]

Yes, and there's also no evidence to say they are smaller either. So can we drop that one until either party have solid evidence? Whilst I'm certain 319s are taller based on comparing the shape and photos plus information, nothing is 100% certain. Even if we did get proof, this would still go round and round in circles probably.

The trouble is that there is no offical info that states if the 319s are the same size as the 313s

But eyes and other sources of information say differently but whatever.

Arguably, the 319s aren't good for regular start stop services, aside from between St Pancras and London Bridge, all the stations are far apart and high track speeds between and that is what the 319 is designed for, the all shacks services on the ECML would be a waste of their potential.

It still better than to send them to areas which would be better off with new trains[/quote]
The 319s should definitely be redeployed, I'm just saying that there are much better places to send them to like new electrification schemes to get rid of Pacers and 2nd Gen MUs or allow a cascade to happen that sees the pacers fall off the end of the conveyor. Sending the 319s to do KX suburban work would not do that.

[Chris]

Actually they are suitable for the Metropolitan Line. The only reason there was a bit of a controversy was because at one point, there was talk about there only being longitudinal seating, however if you have paid any attention to their introduction or been on them then you'll have realized that they all have transverse seating on the Met.

And even if you still think they're not a good idea, why don't you ask the people who travel on them regularly. I don't think anybody preferred the A60/62 stock which smelled of p*** and had damp seats .

I never said that the S-Stock is better than the A-Stock (in fact the S-stock is the best on the LU), but some of the far off stations are more suburban (e.g. Chiltern Railways London to Aylesbury services) than a Metro line

But the S-Stock in service on the Metropolitan line is suitable for more suburban destinations such as Amersham and Chesham.

[Geo Ghost]

How do you know the stations can be extended? Over half of them are underground. If they can only take 6 coaches, you expect the tunnel to be dug out further for two extra coaches? That would be incredible expensive in that space.

I have stated that all overground stations will be extended and the underground ones will be served by SDO operation

No you haven't stated that together. Don't lie. You constantly change what you state to adjust someone's reply.
SDO is a terrible idea. It is fine perhaps if the end of one coach isn't in the platform, which happens quite often on the London Underground. However, a commuter train where a WHOLE coach or even two are going to be sitting outside the platform.. that's utterly silly. And for what benefit? None.
Not all 'overground' stations can be extended - both on the Moorgate branch, and across the GN network. Don't say "oh they can" because you don't travel the GN nearly every day. Some stations cannot be extended any further and others would require a ridiculous amount of work to do so. One's that can be extended already have been or are in the progress of being extended.

The trouble is that there is no offical info that states if the 319s are the same size as the 313s

Right, time to settle this one once and for all.

I went passed Hornsy today and, as usual, there was a 319 parked there. However it was sitting next to a 313.
I can now confirm that the 319 is taller than the 313 in the centre of the roof. So there we go, like we always said.


So there we go chaps. We've now put that one to rest.

[Nawdic]

*Ahem*

Put even simpler:

5171460526_bf200118b9_z.png

EDIT: Ive also found this - 455/7 height data

DTSO/MSO - 12ft 1 1/2in (3.7m)
TSO - 11ft 6 1/2in (3.58m)

TSO = 508 trailer

This'll hopefully bring everything to a close.

I bet Mr Fry can still find an excuse for 313s being the same height as 319s.

[Ameecher]

*Ahem*

Put even simpler:

5171460526_bf200118b9_z.png

EDIT: Ive also found this - 455/7 height data

DTSO/MSO - 12ft 1 1/2in (3.7m)
TSO - 11ft 6 1/2in (3.58m)

TSO = 508 trailer

This'll hopefully bring everything to a close.

I bet Mr Fry can still find an excuse for 313s being the same height as 319s.

It's funny how he is the one demanding proper sources now.

[Dave]

What happened to not winding him up you bunch of thunderf**ks

[Geo Ghost]

What happened to not winding him up you bunch of thunderf**ks

Troll the troll.