Rail Franchises

[GurraJG]

Alright, here's another scenario: will the residents of the Shetland Islands be forced to pay for HS2?

EDIT: Indeed, do answer Dave first.

[Geo Ghost]

It's just NOT possible. You can't have a 250mph train that accelerates and decelerates like a commuter train. It's not possible now. It won't be possible in 100 years. SIMPLE.

Well, it's possible. Slamming into a wall would certainly allow for rapid deceleration
Though it's certainly not at all logical or feasible by any sense of the word. As much as I enjoy being thrust back in my seat and such on a plane taking off (no really, I do! Roll on tomorrow! ), I think having that constantly on a train would get quite annoying. not to mention the buffet staff wouldn't be having the best of times.

Dave - He's not going to give us all the information. Well, we know he's from the South-West London area, as he's mentioned it before. Either that or Enfield.

[Ameecher]

A branch to Norwich is ridiculous and to claim that the GEML is underutilised is ridiculous. You do know Liverpool street is one of the busiest stations in the UK in terms of passenger numbers right and train movements, right?

[Geo Ghost]

That might be the case with current technology, but remember, that are not many trains in normal service that can 250 mph in commerical service
So Improvments can be made to allow 250 mph and no more than 5 minutes lost per stop

Impossible. As Dave said, it will NOT happen.

Do you live here? No. Have you lived here all your life? No. Do you live by the railway here and travel on it at least 4-5 times a week on average? No. Then p*** off thinking you know better

So you are saying faster and more services WILL NOT benefit you town?

That is exactly what I'm saying.
There will not be a benefit of HSR to my town or anywhere around here. Yes, it would be kinda cool and handy, but it's not needed. We can get into London in 20-25 minutes on either commuter or express services. That is very good going. 125mph max is perfectly fine for us. There is not the demand here for High Speed Rail and there never will be.
The line is fast enough and the services provided are excellent in terms of getting around. It'll be improved even further with the completion of Thameslink.
As for more services, we would benefit from some depending where they are going. We have plenty going up north really. The only ones that would be useful would be further improved commuter services. South-bound, that is being solved with thameslink anyway.

I need at least 4 tracks on the HS2 sectors to allow the seperation of the "Slow-Stopping" and "Fast-Express" paths

You don't need 4 tracks for that. That's silly. Look at High-Speed 1. It is two tracks until you get to a station. That's all you would need. Trains aren't going to be running up each others asses.

leave 1/2 a minute to speed up or down

Ok, this one really got me... How the... just.. what? Oh hang on, I see the problem.
Alan, you're confused. We're talking about trains. Not aircraft taking off and landing

I am middle aged, work in transport for most of my life and live in London
---
I grew up in Enfield, if thats what you are asking!

My my. Interesting indeed... I'll get back to you on that one

[Dave]

I don't understand - if you've worked in transport most of your life, how can you not know the line between intercity and commuter trains?

[Ameecher]

Ameecher wrote:
Here's an interesting point as well, currently the ECML timetable allows about 3-4 minutes dwell time at York and 5 -6 minutes at Newcastle. Now the latter is due in part due to crew changes but there are no crew changes at York. These are the two principal through stops on the ECML and they're roughly five minutes. Your new train, even with improvements in acceleration and braking can't change the speed that people get on and off the train.
For comparison, at Avignon, the TGV is stationary for 4 minutes, arriving at 27 minutes past the hour and leaving at 31 minutes past. That gives you 30 seconds to get from 250 to 0 and another 30 seconds to get from 0 to 250.


I plan for train to stop for abut 4 minutes and leave 1/2 a minute to speed up or down

NOT POSSIBLE. Look at a car that has a much greater power to weight ratio than a train can ever have and has a much more efficient method of putting it down (Rubber on Tarmac rather than steel on steel).
The Bugatti Veyron is one of the few cars that can go at 250mph, it takes 55 seconds to reach 400km/h (248mph) No train will ever out perform that. That gives you less than 5 seconds to brake from 250mph to 0.

Ameecher wrote:
And when that's not possible you've got a glorified metro line.


But one that serves the nearly all of England and Scotland and can do 250 mph in Intercity style comfort!

But it won't! When the manufacturers fail to come up with a train that fails to meet your criteria you won't have a line that runs at 250mph and serves everywhere, you'll have one or the other.

[Kevo00]

You talk about these plans like they'll be happening.

I can't see you in any form of government ever.

So where are you from? And what do you do? And how old are you?

I'd love to know all of this information to understand what we're dealing with.

I am middle aged, work in transport for most of my life and live in London

As what, a bus driver?

If you're such an expert why are you so reluctant to tell us who you are?

None of us hide who we are, nor do we have to. Is there a reason that you choose not to publish as yourself?

[Geo Ghost]

Impossible. As Dave said, it will NOT happen.

Not yet, but in the near future...

No. Not now, not soon, not in the future, not ever. Unless we create some sort of sci-fi technology that practically eliminates forces inside some kind of bubble which is the train, but this isn't a sci-fi world. It's real life.

Since your town is served by Intercity Trains, I might as well add Stevenage, otherwise you will lost it. The other main reason is the it will make it easy to travel from Stevenage to the New London Airport I am planning at Medway/Isle of Grain

It's not served constantly by them. just because they serve here isn't a good reason to add it to the list. Think about it. By that logic, you would litterally be creating a new mainline that follows the old one. There's no point to that. Stevenage having HSR would have no benefit at all. Apart from anything, where on earth would you build it for gewd sake? There's no room at all for such to fit in the town with the current line. Not to mention getting a HSR line into the area and out is impossible. Look at a satellite view of the area. It'll stand out instantly as a bad idea!
new London Airp- no no no. No. Just no. No.... no. I'm not even going to go there... no. Jesus.

Alan, why don't you just go and build a new country? It would be much more feasible and probably cheaper than your plans

I do know, My version of HS2 will replace Intercity services, not commuter ones!

Hang on, you said that your services are essentially very fast commuter services. Now you're effectively saying they are not?

My my. Interesting indeed... I'll get back to you on that one

What on earth do you mean?

Ehh, I'll keep this to myself for now Like I said, I'll get back to you on this one.

No I am not, anyway most people on TTF don't use their real names

Well, that's not correct. A lot of people use their real names. others, like myself, sometimes put my name at the end of a message to people or at the end of a notice.

[Ameecher]

You're actually insane. A veyron has 440bhp per ton. A class 43, a single HST power car that carries nobody but the driver and a few bikes has a power to weight ratio of 32 and a bit bhp per ton.

So now what you are proposing is a train that stops everywhere but can't carry anybody. Pretty sure that everywhere that gains these stations will be over the moon at that.

[Kevo00]

As what, a bus driver?

If you're such an expert why are you so reluctant to tell us who you are?

None of us hide who we are, nor do we have to. Is there a reason that you choose not to publish as yourself?

No I am not, anyway most people on TTF don't use their real names

But look I only do this so that I can say my view on things and so my "real" pesonal data is not stolen!

Most people on TTF may not use their real names as their username, but they do post in their real persona and don't hide who they actually are. Some people (Jamie, for example) even use their real picture as an avatar.

Why would posting as your real persona stop you from expressing your views? Are you someone for whom that would be very costly?

If anything the fact that you refuse to tell us much about yourself makes you less credible. Much, much less credible.

[GurraJG]

You don't even need to tell us your name, I'd just like to know what exactly you do within the transport sector.

[Dave]

He's not important enough to hide his identity - he's too much of a nutjob to be in a high position.

But look I only do this so that I can say my view on things and so my "real" pesonal data is not stolen!

Well we're bored of your views now, so why don't you eff off and go and haunt someone else?

[Geo Ghost]

Not intentionally in Alan's defence regarding names, I can understand why people prefer to remain anonymous. Especially in this case if he does really work in the transport industry. If an employer saw him talking negatively about his industry and such... well, it's happened before. Things don't end well.

Well then the Intercity services (and all services to the north) gone all together, because the ECML Intercity services are being replaced by HS2 services and thus there will be no improvment at all (as a taxpyaer are you prepaired for paying for a HSR line that you will not benefit from?)

What? Alan, I'm finding it more and more difficult to understand what you mean now. Why take all the express routes off the mainlines? That's utterly silly! It would never, ever, EVER work for hundreds of reasons!
Regarding the benefit stuff, I'm perfectly happy with the way things are. Why? Because I know the plan benefits the country as a whole and many people. Why should it try and benefit me? It has no need to. I'm not one to say "I want to get something out of this!". I'm happy and reassured knowing that in the long run it is helping everyone in general in some way and the country in general.
You just seem like someone who gets the huff if you don't have things that suit your own needs.

Hang on, you said that your services are essentially very fast commuter services. Now you're effectively saying they are not?

Thats the trains themselves!

Wait, so you want commuter trains to do intercity runs? and intercity trains to do commuter runs? then take all commuter services off mainlines to move them on HSR lines, but they won't be high speed intercity trains... oh christ. I'm really getting lost with this now. Alan, what on earth are you proposing? I'm at total loss now with it all

[Dave]

The train will only have to be twice as powerful because it need to have twice the acceleration (lets say 100 bhp per tonne)

How many times do you have to be told - doubling numbers does not halve performance figures...

Alan, what on earth are you proposing?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO... *barrage of long posts with destination lists*

Not intentionally in Alan's defence regarding names, I can understand why people prefer to remain anonymous. Especially in this case if he does really work in the transport industry. If an employer saw him talking negatively about his industry and such... well, it's happened before. Things don't end well.

If Alan really was in the industry he'd understand these things weren't possible and wouldn't propose them.

Might he be a train cleaner or something? Haha.

[Dave]

We were asking for details of your employment - what you are, what you do... not where you live and how many kids you've got.

[JamieLei]

You can't have twice the acceleration. The fastest High Speed Train for acceleration is the N700 Shinkansen, at 2.6km/h/s. Very fast accelerating metros are at 3.5km/h/s. Obviously the faster the top speed, the worse the acceleration. Since we're looking at 250mph top speed, you're going to struggle to even get 2.6km/h/s acceleration in the first place.

You can't just say "I want to double the acceleration" and then it will happen. Of course we probably could. But then we'd spend so much power on train acceleration with current and probably future technology that there wouldn't be enough electricity left in the country to operate your computer.

There's a reason why the Japanese operate metros at 3.5km/h/s acceleration but their best bullet trains only manage 2.6/h/s.

Might he be a train cleaner or something? Haha.

I was going to say he probably plays OpenBVE all day while claiming the dole, but that can't be right because then he'd at least have some idea of how acceleration works.

I'm also guessing cleaner.

[GurraJG]

You don't even need to tell us your name, I'd just like to know what exactly you do within the transport sector.

I work in the rail sector (and formaly the bus sector)

Doing what? You don't have to be specific, but the "rail sector" is quite large.

[Kevo00]

Most people on TTF may not use their real names as their username, but they do post in their real persona and don't hide who they actually are. Some people (Jamie, for example) even use their real picture as an avatar.

Why would posting as your real persona stop you from expressing your views? Are you someone for whom that would be very costly?

If anything the fact that you refuse to tell us much about yourself makes you less credible. Much, much less credible.

I just don't want idiots (not people like you or others on TTF) going to my house and doing something stupid towards me just because of what I said, Nor do I want my family to suffer from that either

You don't even need to tell us your name, I'd just like to know what exactly you do within the transport sector.

I work in the rail sector (and formaly the bus sector)

Fair dos, but then we need to know what you think you have the authority to say what you do and to propose grand sweeping schemes. Just having worked in the rail and bus sector doesn't necessarily give you that authority (and someone that works in rail would say that we need more railways, wouldn't they?).

I'd also ask if you have ever considered publishing your views properly (not on a forum).

[Dave]

He's not important enough to hide his identity - he's too much of a nutjob to be in a high position.

But look I only do this so that I can say my view on things and so my "real" pesonal data is not stolen!

Well we're bored of your views now, so why don't you eff off and go and haunt someone else?

Well I am not keen on a lot of TTF user views either!

Then why don't you go and find a forum that does want to hear your rubbish?

[Geo Ghost]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO... *barrage of long posts with destination lists*

s***! Didn't think of that!

I just don't want idiots (not people like you or others on TTF) going to my house and doing something stupid towards me just because of what I said, Nor do I want my family to suffer from that either

Hmm, That's fair enough I think. I can assure you there's no one like that here, not even Dave as psychotic as he is. However, I fully respect that reason because I know there are idiots out there, but you probably wouldn't come across them on transport forums if I'm honest.


To be honest, I do wonder what a discussion in person would be like with Alan