FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development

[Dante123]

EDITED


ugh yea its ECS, totally forgot the ECS basics adds these hehe. sorry for mixing up

[BobDendry]

This does not exist in FIRS.

Are there any thoughts of adding such a feature in? I always thought it was good feature in PBI and made the player think with some forethought when planning lines and expansions.

[planetmaker]

This does not exist in FIRS.

Are there any thoughts of adding such a feature in? I always thought it was good feature in PBI and made the player think with some forethought when planning lines and expansions.

No point in having all NewGRFs do the same thing, is there?

[BobDendry]

No point in having all NewGRFs do the same thing, is there?

No point answering a question with a question?

FIRS and PBI don't really do the same things though. PBI was just that. Basic industries. FIRS adds a bit more of a variety, so it's hard to refer to them as equivalent products when they differ so much in feature set as is.

If this has been discussed before, that's fine. It was just a question.

[FooBar]

If you want both variety and stockpiling, then try ECS Vectors.

[BobDendry]

Fair call, never been a fan of ECS and its implementation so I will stick to FIRS for the moment.

[Wahazar]

Chain of fast passenger streamliners with heavy coal trains: the basic TT strategy due to time penalties:

paymentstandard.jpg (149.33 KiB) Viewed 1233 times

And now, with with large maps, it looks strange for me, to earn less money from larger distance of such freights like raw materials.
I decided to play with penalty time parameters to check, if flat curve would work better.
Because FIRS is well documented and written in NML, I let myself to use FIRS sources for testing purpouses.
FIRS already have some parameters adjusted, but payment/time curve is is still to steep for large maps:

paymentfirsmod.jpg (199.69 KiB) Viewed 1233 times

Therefore, I extended early delivery time for bulk raw materials, usually to 200 days, and for balance, decreased base price.
Unfortunatelly, internal openttd graph doesn't plot beyond 200:

paymentfirsmodflat.jpg (211.06 KiB) Viewed 1233 times

For possible future testing, I put new parameters to the defines.pnml file, so in every cargo.py there is function, for example:

Code: Select all

penalty_lowerbound = 'choose_parameter(30,EARLY_DELIVERY_TIME_LARGEMAP_BAUXITE)'

where 30 is and old parameter, EARLY_DELIVERY_TIME_LARGEMAP_BAUXITE is defined in define.pnml,
I added parameter switch to enable/disable flat cargo payment curve:

Code: Select all

#define choose_parameter(standard, largemap) (flat_payment_for_large_maps) ? largemap : standard

Above changes are just for testing purposes, I don,t intend to mix anything in FIRS, however if authors and users think it is worthy to add such feature, you are welcome.
Modified sources are here: http://149.156.194.203/~mczapkie/Train/ ... -mc.tar.gz
(as mentioned above, don't want to mess up with original FIRS, and all those version controls utilities are very new for me).
Compiled FIRS with flat payment (switch must to be enabled in settings):
http://149.156.194.203/~mczapkie/Train/ ... d/firs.grf

Now freight like coal, iron ore, stone etc can be 200 days in transit without price penalty, some other secondary bulk products (petrol, chemicals, lumber) also have flattened curve, as well a grain.
Passengers, mail, food etc, are not affected.

[NekoMaster]

Truthfully I think the idea of decay rates on some cargos is silly. For parishables like food's and sensitive chemicals, it makes sense that their value would drop as the cargo expires if in transit for too long. As for things like mail and goods, it makes sense that you'd get more money the soon your deliver them (evern noticed how express delivery costs way more then standard slower delivery?)

As for cargo's like ores, coal, grain, supplies, etc. Those should have very little decay but perhaps low values so that long or short distance routes can be profitable, unless you use very costly locomotives like an Express passegner locomotive.

There has to be some way to keep passenger and freight locomotives as that, not having express passenger locmotives with low HP and traction hauling a 32 tile unit train going 90-125 MPH or more.

[YukonRob]

While I can't say what the original intent of the decay model was, a flat decay is certainly too (I hate to say it) unrealistic. While things like ore have no real change in physical value during shipping (except based on stock market value but that is a different issue...), there is the issue of payment. If I mine ore and ship it I generally don't get paid until the product reaches the smelter. The longer it takes the more I wait. So how do I pay my staff? I borrow money from the bank and this money has compound interest applied. Very long transit times can result in very large interest penalties.

[Wahazar]

I agree with your argumentation, however in above model, payment curve for bulks is not totally flat,
just ingame plot does not show decay for larger delivery times.
However these modification doesn't remove the main faulty of this game - improper cargo income vs distance calculation - this ridiculous reversed parabolic function sticked to sloped line.
This is the most important part of the game and must to be reworked, to enable fair play on large maps.
By now, you gain more profit for passenger train hauled by Kirby tank engine than AsiaStar, assuming 4000 tile distance.
I don't intend to get highly realistic model, but current model looks like toyland graphics in 32bit mode. It is crazy

[wallyweb]

The railroad promissed on time delivery of coal for the power plant. Unfortunately they miscalculatd the estimated weight of the load and provided insufficiently powered engines. The train arrived two days late. The power plant ran out of coal yesterday. Now the power plant wants to sue the railroad but the candle fell over and burned up the legal documents and the lawyers and judges are late to court because of the traffic jams caused by the traffic signals not working. I'd sell my shares in the railroad company, but the stock market had to close.

[Hafting]

Here is an updated language file for Norwegian. It clears up some confusion, fix some typos, and add some missing translations.

The game was a bit confusing, as both "wood" and "lumber" had exactly the same translation. (So what is a Norwegian sawmill doing then, converting between two identically named cargoes?) The problem was not obvious from the file itself - "wood" is not mentioned, so I guess that one comes from openTTD itself. It was noticeable while playing though.

Also, the "metal fabrication plant" had the same translation as "iron works". Less of a problem, as they look different and specify what kind of cargo they want.

I fixed these problems, and added translations for most missing things, except "fibre crop farm" and "bulk terminal". I hope this will be useful.

[kiefmaster99]

I have a question about the Recycling Plant.

I built a Recycling Plant in my game, but instead of producing Scrap Metal and Manuf. Supplies like the industry chain and website would indicate, it's producing Farm Supplies and Manuf. Supplies instead, as indicated by the industry's info panel. Is this what's supposed to happen, or is it bugged on my end somehow?

[FLHerne]

I have a question about the Recycling Plant.

I built a Recycling Plant in my game, but instead of producing Scrap Metal and Manuf. Supplies like the industry chain and website would indicate, it's producing Farm Supplies and Manuf. Supplies instead, as indicated by the industry's info panel. Is this what's supposed to happen, or is it bugged on my end somehow?

Recycling Plants produce Manufacturing Supplies plus one randomly selected cargo from a list. See andythenorth's previous answer.

The in-game chain viewer isn't clever enough to show that, apparently the website wasn't made to either.

[andythenorth]

Good point about the website. I'll update it to provide info about the random cargos at Recycling Plant.

[FLHerne]

While looking back in the thread, I noticed this:

But still: what about industries which accept coal on Monday and Tuesday, iron ore Wednesday and Thursday, bauxite Friday and nothing on Saturday and Sunday and which produce nothing except metal on Friday?

Would alternately producing different types with a short time period work to get around the limit on number of cargos produced?

Might not work with intake and CargoDist, all the cargo would get lost.

[PikkaBird]

Would alternately producing different types with a short time period work to get around the limit on number of cargos produced?

Not sure if this is a serious question But no, it wouldn't. You only get to set the accepted/produced cargos at the time the industry is built.

[andythenorth]

Docs updated. I might also update the little 'produced cargos' table, but it needs special case code, so I might also not.

http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/pus ... ling_plant

[Hafting]

Is this still the right place for uploading translations?

bundles.openttdcoop.org suggests that I upload translations here or to an issue tracker. The issue tracker seems to be read-only though. This language file is more complete, and fixes a couple of cases where different stuff had the same translation.

[planetmaker]

Is this still the right place for uploading translations?

bundles.openttdcoop.org suggests that I upload translations here or to an issue tracker. The issue tracker seems to be read-only though. This language file is more complete, and fixes a couple of cases where different stuff had the same translation.

Preferentially use the web translator: https://translator.openttdcoop.org/project/firs
You register and apply to become translator at http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home
And the issue tracker is (of course to avoid spam one may add) read-only for non-registered or not-logged-in users.