Path-based signalling preview and test version

Szappy · Post by **Szappy** » 04 Mar 2005 12:17

Here's one, where a train got bored, reversed, and crashed into another one.
Also contains cfg files.

The Irish · Post by **The Irish** » 04 Mar 2005 16:23

Rob wrote:
The Irish wrote:Hi rob,

It seams to me that you have exactly that odd signal immediatly behind the PBS exit signal....
Check again.
No it's not.
It's the vertical (diagonal) track and there is one square (with the track on the right side of the tile) that has no signal.
Number 1 is the exitsignal for the left track and number 2 is the open track(without signal) after the exitsignal for the right track.
Besides it always worked flawlessly with pre Alpha 45, so it must be something that changed in Alpha 45.

I used to have the same problem on similar setups on the vertical tracks. even if the signal is not on the same track but on the other one, it still didn't work.
Is it supposed to work according to Patchman?

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 05 Mar 2005 03:38

I finally figured out why my trains were locking up!

It seems that at PBS blocks, the trains get bored too quickly. They get tired of waiting in a couple of days, max. It doesn't even need to be a breakdown of another train that's causing the delay, an opposing train will do it. And if it reverses and the other signal is blocked, it'll get scared and Stop.

My settings for signal wait times are 35 and 70, which should be more than enough, but in PBS blocks they don't wait even close to that long.

Here's a savegame with a suitable example. Watch the traffic at Finningwell station. The passenger trains will arrive at the same time after a bit, and the second one won't even wait until the first has cleared the intersection before it gets bored and reverses.

gmyx · Post by **gmyx** » 06 Mar 2005 16:39

2 PBS Crashes, look on the right side of the Oil Rig. Same junction for both.

#1 The passenger train will get hit from behind by the woods train.

#2 Another passenger train, this time hit from behind by another passenger train.

Using A45 Hot Fix.

gmyx · Post by **gmyx** » 06 Mar 2005 16:49

Second save game.

Oracle · Post by **Oracle** » 11 Mar 2005 21:35

A weird crash in a45: it seems to be normal signals that I've set to PBS to trigger level crossings. A train breaks down and another one runs straight into the back of it, very near where the save is, in fact. And, unusually for me, I haven't broken one of the junction rules, AFAIK.

cornelius · Post by **cornelius** » 11 Mar 2005 21:50

Oracle wrote:A weird crash in a45: it seems to be normal signals that I've set to PBS to trigger level crossings. A train breaks down and another one runs straight into the back of it, very near where the save is, in fact. And, unusually for me, I haven't broken one of the junction rules, AFAIK.

That has happened to me as well.

kvtb · Post by **kvtb** » 13 Mar 2005 12:03

if there's a train depot within a PBS block, the internal depot signal is a PBS signal, which is okay... but if a train want to reserve a path from a depot to a platform track in a station protected with combo exit signals, it reserves a path even if all platform tracks are occupied. This behaviour causes lock ups and sometimes even train crashes.

To fix this, the user should be able to set the internal signal in the depot to a pre signal (with PBS support of course)

Patchman · Post by **Patchman** » 13 Mar 2005 17:33

Can you post a screenshot or better yet, a savegame? I don't quite get what you're describing.

And no, there won't be a way to choose what signal you have in a depot. If it's in a PBS block, it must be a PBS signal, or else you will get crashes.

kvtb · Post by **kvtb** » 13 Mar 2005 19:02

Patchman wrote:Can you post a screenshot or better yet, a savegame? I don't quite get what you're describing.

Later, if I get Wine working again

And no, there won't be a way to choose what signal you have in a depot. If it's in a PBS block, it must be a PBS signal, or else you will get crashes.

So it isn't possible to have Pre- and PBS combined in a depot?

Patchman · Post by **Patchman** » 13 Mar 2005 19:07

Oh, that's what you want. While it might be technically possible, PBS always overrides presignals anyway if the train can reserve a track.

I think what you really want me to do is fix the bug that makes the game think it can do so even if all signals are red.

sobo · Post by **sobo** » 15 Mar 2005 22:24

Patchman wrote:Oh, that's what you want. While it might be technically possible, PBS always overrides presignals anyway if the train can reserve a track.

uhh i think i asked a month ago but then you said it would brake other things... well until now i havent found a situation that wouldnt be possible with what i suggested back then:

normal PBS signal: trains go on up to their exit signal (or virtually any signal to come)

pre-PBs signal: train stop if their exit is red EVEN if they can reserv a path..

I know its probably a bad decision to change the way those signals work (actually youd only change pre-PBS and only in a handfull of cases)
so maybe this change in meaning could be made a miscmods switch ?

pls considering whether or not youre going to make this possible, bear in mind what a great deal of YET higher flexibility it would add to signalling by combining the advantages of presignalling and PBS and that it is worth the small effort with a couple of junctions (imo)

Aya · Post by **Aya** » 16 Mar 2005 20:16

Hi there. This is my first post, so be gentle

Patchman wrote:
uzurpator wrote: Maybe it would be possible to add 3rd light to the signals?
It's possible already (though not documented), all you need is a new signals.grf with 240 signals in the action 5.

This seems like a commonly-requested feature, and the only set which has this so far is Michael Blunck's DB Set XL.

Annoyingly it only works when traffic runs on the right-hand side, and "signalsontrafficside" is enabled, when starting a game. I'm guessing TTDX for Windows is reading my locale info, and pre-setting traffic to run on the left whenever I start it, so rather than having to remember to change it each time, I decided instead to create a new GRF file with all the signals in.

I've used the graphics from the DB Set for the light-based signals, and the German-style semaphores, and made similar changes to the British-style semaphores from signalsw.grf. So, in theory, my new GRF file should work with any configuration, much like signalsw.grf did for pre-signals.

Note that the new GRF file is a complete replacement for signalsw.grf, so comment it out of your newgrfw.cfg if you decide to use the new one.

This is a Windows-only version, since, although it should be trivial to convert to DOS version, I don't have TTDX for DOS, so I can't test it. Perhaps someone can try it out using GRFCODEC.

Comments/suggestions welcomed...

<Attachment removed by request>

DaleStan · Post by **DaleStan** » 16 Mar 2005 21:55

Aya wrote:Annoyingly [the signals in the DBSetXL] only work when traffic runs on the right-hand side, and "signalsontrafficside" is enabled.

Major misfeature, IMO, but complaining about it here doesn't do much good. MB doesn't visit these forums.

Aya wrote:I'm guessing TTDX for Windows is reading my locale info, and pre-setting traffic to run on the left whenever I start it,

Unfortunately, TTD isn't that smart. By default every new game starts with traffic on left. This can be changed with TTDAlter[0].

*DLs and decodes GRF

Did you ask MB before posting this? Those look rather like his signal graphics, and I wasn't under the impression he tended to approve of things like this.

[0]I'd link to the download page (somewhere on http://www.transporttycoon.net) but it's down right now.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 16 Mar 2005 21:59

The signals are so small that it's not unlikely they'd look the same even if drawn from scratch. If in fact you did actually copy MB's graphics, well, that's not a good thing.

Post by **orudge** » 17 Mar 2005 16:04

DaleStan wrote:[0]I'd link to the download page (somewhere on http://www.transporttycoon.net) but it's down right now.

Hmm, transporttycoon.net is hosted on the same server as tt-forums, so they should be down and up at the same time.

DaleStan · Post by **DaleStan** » 17 Mar 2005 18:22

orudge wrote:Hmm, transporttycoon.net is hosted on the same server as tt-forums, so they should be down and up at the same time.

Code: Select all

$nslookup www.transporttycoon.net
Name:    www.transporttycoon.net
Address:  63.214.165.155
$nslookup www.tt-forums.net
Name:    www.tt-forums.net
Address:  66.111.37.209

So, could that be my problem?
...
fixed.

Patchman · Post by **Patchman** » 18 Mar 2005 15:25

DaleStan wrote:
Aya wrote:Annoyingly [the signals in the DBSetXL] only work when traffic runs on the right-hand side, and "signalsontrafficside" is enabled.
Major misfeature, IMO, but complaining about it here doesn't do much good. MB doesn't visit these forums.

Well, the DBSetXL only includes the German style semaphores, which is why it only has signals for traffic on the right hand side.

However, MB has now sent me an updated signals(w).grf, which I've added to the TTDPatch New Graphics page.

Note: The signal graphics with PBS signals are in the 2.0.1 block, not the 2.0 block, which still has the (old) signal graphics.

Patchman · Post by **Patchman** » 18 Mar 2005 17:57

Patchman wrote:However, MB has now sent me an updated signals(w).grf, which I've added to the TTDPatch New Graphics page.

Note: The signal graphics with PBS signals are in the 2.0.1 block, not the 2.0 block, which still has the (old) signal graphics.

If you've already downloaded them, please download them again now because the earlier version had an incorrect GRFID. Also remove your (old) signals(w).grf from newgrf(w).cfg.

sobo · Post by **sobo** » 18 Mar 2005 18:41

the others work for me as well, just had to load em because they were recognized as another graphic pack by the game..

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Path-based signalling preview and test version

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