Total Graphics Replacement discussion

Born Acorn · Post by **Born Acorn** » 17 Dec 2005 22:08

Excellent work, yet I think it looks a bit tall. It easily dwarfs anything in TTD, and looks a bit strange. I understnad its based on that photo, but its just weird as to how tall it is.

Red*Star · Post by **Red*Star** » 18 Dec 2005 00:16

Probably because in isometric perspercive everything looks a little bit strange. I've looked now for some height values of common platforms - e.g. found a maximum height value (but not above sea level

) of the biggest platform ever built: 472 meters.

Based on the research I think common values _above sea level_ are around 100 meters. If the tallest building in Stralsfurt (on my last posted image) is a 9-storey building (ca. 27m tall), then the old (TTD original) oilrig would be just 50m, and the NEW one between 70 and 80 meters in height - so it's not too huge, more too small.

gkirilov · Post by **gkirilov** » 18 Dec 2005 03:59

The last one goes with the TTRSet

.

Red*Star · Post by **Red*Star** » 27 Dec 2005 21:52

*uff* ... done.

So if nobody wants to have things added to this version of the oilrig I'll cut it down and continue working on 3D meshes in future. pixel-editing was fun for some time, but as it is with all things: "you should know when you have to stop"

@gkirilov: Thanks

ISA · Post by **ISA** » 28 Dec 2005 00:34

Nice!

George · Post by **George** » 28 Dec 2005 05:37

Red*Star wrote:So if nobody wants to have things added to this version of the oilrig I'll cut it down and continue working on 3D meshes in future. pixel-editing was fun for some time, but as it is with all things: "you should know when you have to stop"

In US set thread there is a good work with old train station that is made from a 3D model. Can you do the same with industries?

Red*Star · Post by **Red*Star** » 28 Dec 2005 10:14

You mean this one, I assume...

http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php? ... start=5380

I already thought about the possibility to use 3D meshes... that would be cool, yes, but I have to try how to implement an efficient way of doing that.

Alltaken · Post by **Alltaken** » 28 Dec 2005 11:15

the best option IMO is to do 3d mesh's fr 32bbp GFX then convert them to current pallets.

all things could be done that way so the transition to 32bpp would be less drastic.

we would then have a whole pile of new things that dmh_mac and gorre have already made

Alltaken

Red*Star · Post by **Red*Star** » 28 Dec 2005 12:12

If we do it like that, then we already have

- a coal power plant
- oil wells
- a sawmill (obviously WIP)

if the informations on http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Indus ... raphics%29
are up-to-date.

But I see a problem: Some funny details seen on the 32bpp graphics become less-than-pixel-size blurry pixels in the downscaled version... To have an example I just tried it with MeusHs oil wells... they don't longer look sooo great. It's the same problem as it was with my oil rig: potorealistic (or nearly photorealistic) graphic looks blurry and does no longer fit into the TTD world*) because the (O)TTD gfx look more... kittenishly and kinda "cute".

*) I mean the "old", the 16bpp gfx world

Red*Star · Post by **Red*Star** » 28 Dec 2005 12:36

Ok, it *is* possible, if you apply a sharpening filter.

(Sorry, MeusH for using your mesh as a guinea pig

)

Actually it is to bright to fit in the "old" TTD world, but with some additional filters that can be fixed. The question is: Is there an automatizable way to convert 3D renderings appropriately into 16bpp - without having to manually edit parameters as brightness etc. for each sprite?

dmh_mac · Post by **dmh_mac** » 28 Dec 2005 12:58

Here's my sawmill. I tried converting it, but I failed. Feel free to try for yourself.

http://www.tt-forums.net/files/5-lumbermill-b_172.png

Red*Star · Post by **Red*Star** » 28 Dec 2005 13:12

Whooo... wow, that looks cool!

Alltaken · Post by **Alltaken** » 28 Dec 2005 13:54

Red*Star wrote: But I see a problem: Some funny details seen on the 32bpp graphics become less-than-pixel-size blurry pixels

you can also render to scale and not use Anti-aliasing. hence no blurriness.

Alltaken

Red*Star · Post by **Red*Star** » 28 Dec 2005 14:03

Maybe Blender does it's job better when rendering without antialiasing - but if I render to scale, then under 3DSMax everything looks like crap without AA.

I will try some different AA filters, maybe there's one that preserves more detail.

Alltaken · Post by **Alltaken** » 28 Dec 2005 14:04

ok here is the sawmill to the colour pallet and the correct size. i don't see whats wrong with it, it looks good to me

possibly isn't correct to some of the magic colours, i think magic colours should be a GFX option per sprite.....

Alltaken

Red*Star · Post by **Red*Star** » 28 Dec 2005 14:14

In THIS size it looks ok. But not if you scale it down. I mean... it should be of the size as the image I appended is for old TTD, shouldn't it?

And STILL there's the question if it does fit with the old gfx

Red*Star · Post by **Red*Star** » 28 Dec 2005 14:25

Maybe we should start a poll "does this fit or not?" ...

Alltaken · Post by **Alltaken** » 28 Dec 2005 14:25

oh whoops i zoomed to the wrong size.

and i don't think it matters if it fits old GFX, as long as it fits the new stuff.

a transition period would IMO look ugly, but i think it would be worth it.

Alltaken

eis_os · Post by **eis_os** » 28 Dec 2005 14:28

Hmm, looks nice, let me wonder how much work it would be to allow 64k colors in TTDPatch ...

Red*Star · Post by **Red*Star** » 28 Dec 2005 15:23

Alltaken wrote:and i don't think it matters if it fits old GFX, as long as it fits the new stuff.

Alltaken

If with "as long as it fits the new stuff" you mean that we reach some "interemediate development state" in which we still have 16bpp gfx, but with a complete replacement of the copyrighted TTD graphics, then I fully agree.

It's just because currently all of the - let's call them "intermediate gfx" - which currently exists have a style similar to that in original TTD.

So IMO it will be hard to get the intermediate gfx replacement stuff conform, if we combine renderings with hand-drawn pixel graphics. I would prefer, if we can avoid such an "ugly state", to use your words.

PS: Yeah! Found an AA algorithm that produces render output which isn't too blurry and don't looks as crappy as the non-AA version is.

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