US Set Development Thread

Oracle · Post by **Oracle** » 07 Jul 2004 16:15

SD110 is now OK.
Alco RS-1 will not get encoded even if drawn. Possibly the BL-2 also. We have too many similar diesels around that point and the RS-1 is (I've checked) incredibly similar on all fronts to two different locos.
Should the Sharknose be included in the first release with only the A unit?

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 07 Jul 2004 16:31

Oracle wrote: SD110 is now OK.

Do I have the most current sprites on my tracking table?

Oracle wrote:Alco RS-1 will not get encoded even if drawn. Possibly the BL-2 also. We have too many similar diesels around that point and the RS-1 is (I've checked) incredibly similar on all fronts to two different locos.

Certainly they aren't worth bothering with in the first release, I don't argue that at all. Or do you mean, they aren't worth including, at all? It's true that I haven't found much use for the wimpy diesels except for non-prototypical short local passenger runs. Anybody else think we should ditch the RS-1 and BL-2 entirely? I don't feel too strongly about them, except that they are currently on the list. If nobody really wants to keep them, I'll axe them.

Oracle wrote:Should the Sharknose be included in the first release with only the A unit?

Umm... I'd say, yes, but seriously, it's the A unit that's much harder to draw, how hard can it be to alter it into an A unit? Can you post the A sprites here, maybe somebody can massage them into the Bs in time?

Oracle · Post by **Oracle** » 07 Jul 2004 20:03

I've just had another look at the stats for the BL-2 and RS-1 and the RS-1 is an S-2 duplicate, it seems, and the BL-2 is similar to the RS-3 and Sharknose but worse. Therefore I see no reason to include them. (We have too many locos anyway.)

Sharknose A-unit attached (could do with some improvements IMHO):
(note Windows palette)

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 07 Jul 2004 20:19

OK then, the RS-1 and BL-2 are now officially axed, and won't appear on the table next time I upload it.

I agree with you, Oracle, the Sharknose you posted leaves somewhat to be desired. Y'know, I'm going to ask Purno to have a look at it, maybe it will strike his fancy.

Paean to Oracle

I have not been doing "structured" testing of the set, but rather have just played more or less ordinary games using it. Of course I use all the locos, and all the cars, so as to get a look at everything; but I wanted to see how the set worked as a whole. I started with the Arctic climate, then the Tropic, now I'm in the 50s in the Temperate climate. I've udpated the GRF file every time a new version is released, and played the game until 2010 or so before moving on.

I must say, in this latest game, I am astounded how closely my operating practices have mirrored reality. There are some locos, such as the Hudson and Daylight, that are just not cost-effective for short trains; if the train isn't a long one, they can't make enough money to cover their costs. You have to use something cheaper, like the Pacific.

Similarly, I find myself scrapping fairly new Mikados to replace them with F7s, because the Mikados are too expensive to operate; and then scrapping fairly new F7s to replace them with GP9s, again because of operating costs.

The Trainmaster is a good strong loco, but too slow, it delays other traffic.

The Challenger is excellent for express freight, and can hold its own against at least the first generation of diesels.

And so on. In short, I believe Oracle's pricing structure has, in the main, captured a very realistic "feel." I'm astounded at how well it has actually come out. I can't wait to see the reaction of the Community At Large to this set.

uzurpator · Post by **uzurpator** » 07 Jul 2004 20:36

hmm - i'll try to finish it later this evening...

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 07 Jul 2004 20:41

Ah. uzurpator, yours is clearly the best yet. I'd already invited Purno to have a look at it, but I don't know if he will, and if he does, he's sure to come here first and see that you're already tinkering with it.

DanMacK... pleeeeze finish up the open autoracks!

DanMacK · Post by **DanMacK** » 07 Jul 2004 22:55

singaporekid_92 wrote:which page?
What happened to danmack?

He's been busy with other things and hasn't even had time to play TTD to test the latest version of the US Set. That will be resolved on my days off though I hope.

Will finish the racks shortly, they don't look right loaded for some reason.

Singapore Kid, shay looks good, and the separate tender IS appropriate as 3 adn 4 truck shays DID have separate tenders. They were still connected via driveshafts to the loco though. If we do have a Shay, we do need a bigger road model like a 3 or 4 trucker. The loco should be darker and the red doesn't look right.

Uzurpator, the RF16 doesn't look too bad, but it doesn't have the angled look of the original. I'll tinker with mine and see what I can do.

Will post more later

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 08 Jul 2004 02:40

We fought through this Shay + tender thing before, pages ago. I don't want to do it again. Singaporekid, do a search in this thread for "Shay" and read everything you find.

Bug, Oracle. The Big Blow's tender doesn't have its size override working correctly. The tender is actually small, I think 6/8 or 7/8, but the "space" it takes isn't, so there's a big gap between it and the loco.

Purno · Post by **Purno** » 08 Jul 2004 06:34

krtaylor wrote:I agree with you, Oracle, the Sharknose you posted leaves somewhat to be desired. Y'know, I'm going to ask Purno to have a look at it, maybe it will strike his fancy.

Are there some pictures of that Sharknose?

uzurpator · Post by **uzurpator** » 08 Jul 2004 07:28

Purno wrote:
krtaylor wrote:I agree with you, Oracle, the Sharknose you posted leaves somewhat to be desired. Y'know, I'm going to ask Purno to have a look at it, maybe it will strike his fancy.
Are there some pictures of that Sharknose?

http://exotic.railfan.net/baldwinphotomenu.htm

Purno · Post by **Purno** » 08 Jul 2004 07:35

One of those? If yes, which one, they don't seem to be the same.

http://exotic.railfan.net/dhsharks%20and%20PAs.htm

uzurpator · Post by **uzurpator** » 08 Jul 2004 07:48

the one on the foreground. Background is alco pa-1

zero1000 · Post by **zero1000** » 08 Jul 2004 07:49

the loco in foreground of picture is the sharknose!

edit: damn, urzupator was faster

Singaporekid · Post by **Singaporekid** » 08 Jul 2004 08:02

so should i draw a shay with a seperate tender?

found this in a search
Some Shays were that small (they ran on narrow-gauge), but the one we're modeling is a large fullsize Shay. So it should have a separate tender. The loco can be 2/3 size, and the tender 2/3 size likewise.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 08 Jul 2004 18:16

Here's what we do with the Shay:

Draw it with a separate tender. That way we can still say that ALL the US set steamers use tenders.

We program it with a contagious-power override, so that the tender provides not much HP, but lots of TE. That's reasonable because that's where the weight is.

Bug, Oracle - The Little Joe's matching passenger cars don't seem to sit right on the rails in the diagonal view, they are too far down in the going-up-and-to-the-right view. Or maybe the loco's wrong. Anyway, they don't match.

Oracle · Post by **Oracle** » 08 Jul 2004 21:02

A new version is uploaded. This could be the final version before release because I am feeling very happy about the quality of the set in general. I just need to give it a little bit of playtesting before I release it.

krtaylor: I don't think contagious power affects TE...

krtaylor wrote:Bug, Oracle. The Big Blow's tender doesn't have its size override working correctly. The tender is actually small, I think 6/8 or 7/8, but the "space" it takes isn't, so there's a big gap between it and the loco.

You haven't read the readme, have you?

The second part needs to be reversed (control held down) in order to look right. Same for all the other articulated locos, as it says in the readme.

If the Sharknose comes quickly then it will get encoded...

Patchman · Post by **Patchman** » 08 Jul 2004 22:16

Oracle wrote:krtaylor: I don't think contagious power affects TE...

Each powered vehicle adds its own amount of TE to the total train TE. So as long as the tender has power and weight (and the TE-weight-factor set properly), it'll contribute to the TE.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 09 Jul 2004 02:15

Oracle wrote:
krtaylor wrote:Bug, Oracle. The Big Blow's tender doesn't have its size override working correctly. The tender is actually small, I think 6/8 or 7/8, but the "space" it takes isn't, so there's a big gap between it and the loco.
You haven't read the readme, have you? The second part needs to be reversed (control held down) in order to look right. Same for all the other articulated locos, as it says in the readme.

Read my complaint more carefully. Both the first and second parts of the Big Blow are perfect. The problem is the spacing/positioning/size of the tender, which is the third part.

And, you don't necessarily have to hold [Ctrl] to get the second part to look right. If it's not behind the first part, you usually get another first part; but, if you move it to the correct second spot, even without [Ctrl], it usually comes out correctly.

Singaporekid · Post by **Singaporekid** » 09 Jul 2004 06:19

i dont have the proper skill to draw the tender!
what happened to alphanuemric

goalie · Post by **goalie** » 09 Jul 2004 07:53

is there a beta release in the next two weeks
i only ask because in two weeks ill drive in holiday and dont know if i am able to go in the internet in my holidays

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