Tropicset [Final]

Dinges · Post by **Dinges** » 25 Aug 2003 17:11

I realy like this set, trains are slow and RV's are just as usefull as trains in some cases...

The thing I'm going to suggest to you is to lower the RV running cost a little bit, could you do that for me

way2good · Post by **way2good** » 25 Aug 2003 17:17

I agree, by the way why there is no Car Carrier (500 Goods one)

uzurpator · Post by **uzurpator** » 25 Aug 2003 18:57

RV's running cost is proportonal to their capacity. Base cost is 2400$. This means that RV's are getting expotentially better with each generation since each of them allows them to make more trips for the same money.

Train's running cost is proprtional to their speed with base of 8000$ (with five exceptions - DDA40x has doubled cost due to the virtual "two" engine consist, MJS 250 and (yet unavalible) Jinty Class Tank have lowered running costs and obvously - tenders have altered running costs too).

Now - should I increase the base cost for trains (real men mode) or lower for trucks. And if so - how much?

Way2good - i have no idea - I didn't meddle with ships at all.

way2good · Post by **way2good** » 26 Aug 2003 05:18

Well i have abaut 100 ships in my save so it bothers me

spaceman-spiff · Post by **spaceman-spiff** » 26 Aug 2003 05:38

The carcarrier is temperate only, I think because it's supposed to have steel, from which cars are made in factories

Raichase · Post by **Raichase** » 26 Aug 2003 12:04

Yeah I guess, because its a bit hard to make a car from copper, wood and rubber (unless we are talking a toy car). I think the car carriers spot is taken up by the Referigierated Ship, with the food.

Dinges · Post by **Dinges** » 26 Aug 2003 12:51

the fridge ship looks much better...

troopper5 · Post by **troopper5** » 26 Aug 2003 14:05

Increase base cost of trains?

I say no

Sokko · Post by **Sokko** » 26 Aug 2003 17:47

Is there a way to fix the vehicle order? Normally trains are listed in order of date introduced, but your new ones are listed in reverse order (this is why the class 10A is listed back to front), though the original engines remain properly sorted, scattered as they are. Oddly enough, the maglev engines are sorted correctly, except for the Seraphim Experiment which is for some reason at the end of the list. (am I correct in assuming that all of those are maglev?) Also, normally the RVs are sorted into their respective cargo categories and sorted by date within those, but this isn't the case for many.

I'm especially confused by the tenders. Are you just supposed to stick them on any steam train? Which ones go with which trains, and which don't need them at all?

Could you possibly delete the original TTD trains, like the DB set did? I hate still having them around; I'm waiting for the day when all TTD vehicles will be replaced by new "sets".

Just wondering: Is there a way to "copy over" the new road vehicles to the other climates? (since the others don't have any new RVs yet, and I really like these ones) Maybe the maglevs could also be copied over, since the DB set only has a single monorail/maglev engine.

One more, unrelated, thing: Today I discovered that the TTDX Configurator won't let you set Multihead to 0. It's either a number greater than 0, or turn Multihead behavior off completely. You have to set it manually. Odd.

uzurpator · Post by **uzurpator** » 26 Aug 2003 22:00

Sokko:

Engine order: my thought was - You would be more interested in new engines - thus to save you clicking and scrolling I had put new ones on the top of the list.
Maglevsa re in the sequential order since you always see them all on the list. Seraphim is the last since it is an experimental engine (with dire price and running cost) that will disappear soon after Prometeus is introduced..

Tenders:
standard tender:
class 11 b
class 12 a
class 12 c 'Caprotti'
wills 2-8-0
condensing tender:
class 25
tenderless:
10A
Jinty Class Tank

RVs: I could not make proper sorting of RVs because AI has hardcoded priorities which vehicle use to which route. If I meddled with it then then AI would use oil trucks for grain lines etc.

So i made the arrangement: data tweak and new names for existing trucks and listing them below the current one. Exception are buses and mail trucks which got a extras listed right below them.

I might kill all 'vanilla' ttd engines but not at this date. Maybe later.

Trucks. Well I have all the trucks (7 generations mind you ^^) drawn and ready to use but I am just too lazy-ass to implement them.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 26 Aug 2003 22:59

Engine order: my thought was - You would be more interested in new engines - thus to save you clicking and scrolling I had put new ones on the top of the list.

Good point. But generally when you build a loco, you also need to build traincars to go with it, and those are always at the bottom of the list. So having the more recent types, which you are more likely to buy, towards the bottom of the list, makes some sense. Also it's what we are used to.

Is there a way to note on the Engines what sort of tender, if any, they need? I suppose we'll just get used to it.

I'm not sure if having a separate condensing tender item is worthwhile, it might be easier just to have "tender" for all the trains that want them, and put the condenser tender in as the sprite override, the way most of the tenders work.

I'd vote for ditching the original locos too.

7 generations of trucks?! Are there really that many available slots?

uzurpator · Post by **uzurpator** » 26 Aug 2003 23:45

krtaylor:
but you will buy a train once but upgrade the engine several times. Also to buy wagons you would simply scroll to the bottom of the list...

As for the trucks - I wanted to leave vanilla ttd trucks untouched and add 7 refittable trucks for players only.

As for the condenser - As I said I wanted to make tenders usable, not just an useless accesory. That is why they are seperate "engines". Besides condenser has different stats and uses different length then the standard one.

I suppose i an add tot he names of the engines what kind of tender they use. Like this:

Class 11 B (Steam,Standard) (or abbrieviate it if the name is too long)

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 26 Aug 2003 23:52

I see what you're saying about the engine order. Personally I am used to it the way it is, and it's going to stay that way in all the other environments as far as I know, and so I'd just as soon this set followed the same convention, but it's your work and it isn't a killer.

The different tenders is not really a big deal. Adding them to the description will help.

Leaving TTD trucks in there makes sense I guess.

G-Klav · Post by **G-Klav** » 27 Aug 2003 15:16

Wow, I am away for two weeks, and this set is just...WOW

I REALLY like it!!

Sokko · Post by **Sokko** » 27 Aug 2003 16:11

You could have the option of 2 versions: Depending on what they like more, people can have most recent engines at the top or the bottom. It's always good to give choices.

And umm... tenders are already a "useless accessory". No matter what you do, that's what they are. Everyone uses them anyway because they're realistic and they look really cool! There's no need to confuse things by giving your tenders stats and stuff. Just make them a statless "carriage" like the DB set did, and you'll be fine. Plus, no oddly smoking tenders!

You're sure there's no way to fix the RVs without screwing the AI? Perhaps a feature of TTDPatch could change AI priorities and make it use different vehicles, I dunno...

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 27 Aug 2003 16:57

Perhaps a feature of TTDPatch could change AI priorities and make it use different vehicles, I dunno...

Great idea. Patch crew, any comments?

Raichase · Post by **Raichase** » 27 Aug 2003 21:33

krtaylor wrote:
Perhaps a feature of TTDPatch could change AI priorities and make it use different vehicles, I dunno...
Great idea. Patch crew, any comments?

I think it would have to be in the suggestions thread

. Also, if you guys read the instruction manual for the DB set, you will find out this is already possible:

Each loco has a AI ID type number. The AI player will always use the highest ranked loco from the best track. By giving the locos the AI can't handle (such as those with tenders) an AI ID of 0, the AI will never build them. If Adam allocated the numbers he wanted to the vehicles he wanted to have higher AI priority, then the AI would always build the best vehicle. This must be done if you used a really good loco (such as the CS4000) to make a steam loco. For the rest of time, the AI would be stuck buying the CS4000's replacement because it has the higher AI ID. I'd sat Michael would be able to explain it more clearly...

That was loosely quoted from the instructions of the DB set, by Michael Blunk. I suggest a further look to make sure it is what you wanted. If not, why not wander over to the suggestions forum and place it there (I imagine the patch crew would appreciate it in the right thread

)

uzurpator · Post by **uzurpator** » 27 Aug 2003 22:29

Raichase:

1. AI prefeence set to 00 does not make AI not build a vehicle
2. We were talking about road vehicles which have no AI preference flag so I persume that they are hardcoded into the game.

Raichase · Post by **Raichase** » 28 Aug 2003 06:13

uzurpator wrote:Raichase:

1. AI prefeence set to 00 does not make AI not build a vehicle
2. We were talking about road vehicles which have no AI preference flag so I persume that they are hardcoded into the game.

1. It does for the DB set, I dunno the specifics on how Michael did it, but the AI will not build a loco with a tender because it has a rating of 00, because the P13 tank loco has the rating of 01. It seems that because the 01 was always present (being the first vehicle invented), and later the 02+, the AI never needed to use an 00 loco...

2. Ah yes, I agree with you there. I admit that it would make it difficult to make the AI use the "best road vehicle" at the time if the srpite used to be one of the really slow ones from toyland.

Sokko · Post by **Sokko** » 29 Aug 2003 11:44

What would REALLY be cool would be a replacement for the RV-choosing scheme that would be compatible with any graphic set, and that graphic set could still have the vehicles in the "normal" order. However, it depends on TTDPatch being able to do certain things which I'm not sure are possible.

TTDPatch will have a list of codes that correspond to the original TTD vehicles; when the AI buys a vehicle, TTDPatch knows what type of vehicle it has bought based on these codes (wood, coal, etc). It then does a search for any vehicle name containing the correct word; if it detects that the AI has bought an RV from the slot that originally contained an oil truck, it will search the RV list for truck names that contain the word "oil". It will find all the RVs created so far that carry oil (presuming they are named correctly) and pick out the "best" one to use based on creation date. It then swaps this correct vehicle with the incorrect one that the AI just bought, and deduct the correct amount from the AI's finances.

Yes, yes, I know it's OT. I'm copying and pasting this to the Suggestions forum right away.

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