Articulated Road Vehicles

Website · Post by **Lakie** » 16 May 2007 11:02

Could you also attach your ttdpatch.cfg please.

~ Lakie

MJS · Post by **MJS** » 16 May 2007 11:02

And the ttdpatch.cfg.

BTW, is it a feature or a bug that I can't add a depot to the tram's orders?

edit: Sorry, Lakie, needed a few extra seconds there

Website · Post by **Lakie** » 16 May 2007 11:23

I do not know anything about depot and orders sorry, I know its from a patch go to depot, but not if Steven rigged it or anything not to work.

As for solving bugs, you may have noticed that I haven't actually been fixing anything, this is mainly because I'm in the middle of my end of year exams at University, so don't expect any progress from me any time soon...

~ Lakie

Carlo Ghega · Post by **Carlo Ghega** » 23 May 2007 06:55

Hello!

Sorry for the intermission, had a lot to do and didn't manage to respond before. Sorry for that!

DaleStan wrote: The bug reports aren't annoying, but your insistence on producing OllyDbg screenshots that Should Not Be is.

Already had the sneaking suspicion that I could somehow be gifted in finding bugs. But never realised that I am this talented to find a bug in the debugger when trying to debug a bug with it...

DaleStan wrote: Can you please contact Oleh Yuschuk, tell him you're having this problem, and do anything he asks to help him figure out what's going on?

Have done so and told him that I got the same problem as you, but probably every time I use Olly. And will keep you informed if there is any progress.

DaleStan wrote: I'd bet Carlo's doing all that extra work because he isn't getting a crashlog

Of course I didn't.

eis_os wrote:It may be Oleh fault, it may be aswell Windows already has cleaned up stuff it shouldn't (The register context is recieved different), aswell he works on a new version, I am unsure if he can help there...

Don't know if that helps, but what I can offer on topic is a savegame where an aRV-tram falls apart in its single components (as seen on the screenshot). Savegame starts on the 30th Mai 1964, the incident begins on the 7th of june. Don't let you get irritated by the tram torso seen on the sea (marked green) - this is a result of an incident that happened before (like discribed above: After selling the tram, the components get stuck where they are). Occured under the same settings as listed in the cfg-files above.

lakie wrote: As for solving bugs, you may have noticed that I haven't actually been fixing anything, this is mainly because I'm in the middle of my end of year exams at University, so don't expect any progress from me any time soon...

Please take your time, good luck for your exams!

Best regards to everybody,

Carlo

OzTrans · Post by **OzTrans** » 20 Jun 2007 03:11

Just had a look at those articulated trams ... and found some interesting problems :

Using r1590 and HiroTram.grf, built a 3-part tram and let it loose ...

First the lead unit appears from the depot and runs down the track (1), then after a while part 2 and 3 appear and follow the lead unit at a snails pace. Once the lead unit has reached the depot, it will wait inside until the rest has reached the depot, once inside the whole show starts again, the other way. The lead unit does stop to pick up passengers, if ordered to do so, but the trailers will not.

Yes, and the tram detail window, shows a gap between unit 1 and 2, unit 2 being 5/8th long.

Maedhros · Post by **Maedhros** » 20 Jun 2007 08:19

OzTransLtd wrote:First the lead unit appears from the depot and runs down the track (1), then after a while part 2 and 3 appear and follow the lead unit at a snails pace. Once the lead unit has reached the depot, it will wait inside until the rest has reached the depot, once inside the whole show starts again, the other way. The lead unit does stop to pick up passengers, if ordered to do so, but the trailers will not.

Is the road vehicle part of your Mountains switch set to 3? Unless it's been fixed recently I think this causes problems with arvs.

OzTransLtd wrote:Yes, and the tram detail window, shows a gap between unit 1 and 2, unit 2 being 5/8th long.

That's due to the grf - the first part of the tram is 24 pixels long and so should use callback 11 to specify that it's 7/8ths length, but it doesn't so the drawing code draws it as if it were full length.

stevenh · Post by **stevenh** » 20 Jun 2007 11:49

I can't remember if I even recoded that details window to actually handle Callback 11 and align the sprites appropriately...

But yeah, Lakie did a grand amount of work on the RV Processing code (trailers specifically) though seemed to find that the mountains switch was a thorn in his side...

Ameecher · Post by **Ameecher** » 20 Jun 2007 15:01

I'm not sure if this is a known bug but if an articulated road vehicle set is loaded into a previous game the trailer vehicles do not appear but capacity is as intended.

Screenshot, newgrf.cfg and ttdpatch.cfg added to show what I mean.

UKTS.grf can be provided if need be, it is not publically released yet.

Ameecher · Post by **Ameecher** » 20 Jun 2007 15:04

save game

Website · Post by **Lakie** » 20 Jun 2007 15:14

Having the grf would be useful...
[edit] Not repeatable here.

~ Lakie

OzTrans · Post by **OzTrans** » 20 Jun 2007 23:19

Maedhros wrote: ... Is the road vehicle part of your Mountains switch set to 3? ...

Yes, it was (by accident).

... That's due to the grf - the first part of the tram is 24 pixels long and so should use callback 11 to specify that it's 7/8ths length, but it doesn't so the drawing code draws it as if it were full length.

Sorry, I wasn't aware, the lead unit is only 7/8th; I should have checked. But, when examining a code bit yesterday, only the middle unit gets set to 5/8th. So, probably something for stevenh to look into ...

wallyweb · Post by **wallyweb** » 31 Jul 2007 07:57

Just some thoughts on articulated RVs in general and trucks in particular ...
Articulated RVs were implemented primarily to enable multi unit trams, however the concept is also applicable to trucks.

Current issues:
- trailer(s) do not appear in purchase window.
- can't use realistic mountain setting (3)
- can't schedule depot for service
- must use drive through stations/articulated RVs can't use regular stations
- nobody has drawn proper truck trailers yet

Discussion:
Please keep in mind that I am not a TTDX coder, artist, nor patch developer.
- I am assuming that the purchase window issue requires some extra lines of code.
- that the mountain setting needs a code fix.
- that the depot scheduling requires some extra lines of code, although this might be related to not being able to schedule regular stations.
- that regular stations scheduling was omitted because these are not realistic for trams.
- George's LV sets come the closest to implementing truck trailers, but he has yet to release articulated versions. I suspect that he is in his laboratory working on something to surprise us with. Hopefully, others are working on similar additions to their sets.
- Articulated trucks can be built in the same manner as trams but until trailers are drawn and made available, the player must use two or more trucks in order to simulate the effect.
- Regular stations may not be appropriate for trams but they are right for trucks which tend to back in to loading docks to load and unload. The question, I assume, is writing patch code so that articulated trucks can use a regular truck station.

Have I missed anything?

DaleStan · Post by **DaleStan** » 31 Jul 2007 08:21

wallyweb wrote:- I am assuming that the purchase window issue requires some extra lines of code.

That can, and therefore should, be fixed in NFO.

wallyweb wrote:- that regular stations scheduling was omitted because these are not realistic for trams.

Do you want the real reason or the official reason?

wallyweb wrote:- Regular stations may not be appropriate for trams but they are right for trucks which tend to back in to loading docks to load and unload. The question, I assume, is writing patch code so that articulated trucks can use a regular truck station.

We have, or will soon have, an NFO spec that should provide this ability. Supporting this spec may be interesting, however.

wallyweb · Post by **wallyweb** » 31 Jul 2007 08:30

Thanls DaleStan for the prompt reply.

With respect to this one:

DaleStan wrote:
wallyweb wrote:- that regular stations scheduling was omitted because these are not realistic for trams.
Do you want the real reason or the official reason?

How about one of each?

DaleStan · Post by **DaleStan** » 31 Jul 2007 08:42

You've got the official reason already. I understand the real reason has a little more to do with the stations not having been designed to handle articulated vehicles and it being way too hard to fix this. Especially with realistically sized, and FSM controlled, road stations in the works.

wallyweb · Post by **wallyweb** » 31 Jul 2007 13:27

Gotta love the way you say

DaleStan wrote:... way too hard ...

instead of the usual
[stock quote]... impossible ...[/stock quote]

DaleStan · Post by **DaleStan** » 31 Jul 2007 15:53

Well, anyone who hasn't learned by now that nothing is impossible, ...

Ameecher · Post by **Ameecher** » 31 Jul 2007 18:17

I asked Lakie about why ARVs can only use the drive through road stops and he said that it was due to the fact that the ARV would try to split up and each section would attempt to occupy a bay at the lorry/bus station.

I think that's what he said anyway, It would look really weird seeing an ARV getting into the original RV stops because they look odd enough with the turn on the spot even without ARVs.

Website · Post by **Lakie** » 31 Jul 2007 18:28

Well, maybe it would, but at the moment the main reason it cannot use them is it has no station code for trailers in such suitations!

~ Lakie

wallyweb · Post by **wallyweb** » 31 Jul 2007 18:37

Ameecher wrote:I asked Lakie about why ARVs can only use the drive through road stops and he said that it was due to the fact that the ARV would try to split up and each section would attempt to occupy a bay at the lorry/bus station.

I think that's what he said anyway, It would look really weird seeing an ARV getting into the original RV stops because they look odd enough with the turn on the spot even without ARVs.

Actually with Articulated trucks, this would be quite realistic as they often drop the trailer while it is being loaded/unloaded. I do agree that with trams this would be an issue. Some trucks have a body (not trailer) configured to their load with a matching trailer of about the same length as the truck. This would work quite nicely with the game's 2-bay stations. This would require that the consist be able to check that both bays were available or wait until both are available before entering.

The little dance that the original RVs perform I think is supposed to represent the RVs turning so as to back into the bays.

Lakie wrote:Well, maybe it would, but at the moment the main reason it cannot use them is it has no station code for trailers in such suitations!

This calls for a patch!

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