London bus strike

[Kevo00]

London buses not profitable? Can you show us some figures for this? Unlike in provincial cities London buses get good loadings 24/7.

While they might have more passengers, they have to have more services, they cannot control fares, they cannot paint their buses other than red, so I will be suprised that they are making huge profits out of this (however, any profit, small or large should go into the bus services, not as dividends)

So, unsupported assertion once more. I'd actually argue being relieved of marketing responsibilities is actually a good thing for a London bus operator, and certainly having to paint the bus red is not a problem because it supports the brand. London buses are more of a franchised monopoly than a competitive business.

[Hyronymus]

This topic is about London bus strikes, NOT about Russian airlines. Continue on topic or stay quiet.

[Nawdic]

I agree with Hyro. No more plans or off-topicness.

Look at this - X26, a high profile route between Heathrow and Croydon run by 12 metre Mercs, only recently changed operator. Will they get higher wages for the olympics? I think not. This is TfL, not the operator that regulate driver's wages. If they want more money, they can earn it by doing overtime, or by leaving and going to a provincial bus operator. Or, even joining National Express, for that matter.

[JamieLei]

No, you tell me exactly why the driver of the H25 should get more money, and whether more people would be using the H25 bus during the Olympics.

Because there will be more traffic on the roads and people will be moving about more during the games

Please explain why there will be more traffic on the H25 bus route, and more people will be using the H25 bus route during the games.

By your logic, all bus drivers in Manchester should also get a raise during the games.

[Nawdic]

The only buses that go in and out of Heathrow and be busy are the 111 to Kingston via Hampton Ct, A10 to Uxbridge (being a Freeflow service to Hatton X doesn't help) the X26 and First Berks 7x series towards Slough. The H25 is merely a hoppa bus.

I have a feeling that Alan lives no where near Heathrow and doesn't know what he is on about...

[JamieLei]

The H25 isn't even that. It shuttles between Hatton Cross Tube and housing estates in Bedfont, Feltham and Hanworth Butts Farm. It doesn't even go to Heathrow, and primarily exists to get people from their homes to either Hatton Cross Tube or Feltham Railway Station (SWT, where it's 25 mins into Waterloo).

Seeming as usage is likely to go DOWN during the Olympic period as London workers are encouraged to take annual leave and go on holiday, or work from home, I ask why the drivers of the H25 deserve a bonus.

I also doubt whether the X26 would be busy. Tourists wouldn't take a London bus to get to Kingston or Croydon - they'd take the train.

[MjD]

I've got a feeling I may get shot for this, but, why not.

(Disclaimer I don't know the geography of the areas and or services btw)

I think the reason why the union is fighting for all bus drivers because as a collective force they are stronger together wanting a bonus than just sections that are going to be directly affected by the Olympics.

Out of curiosity, will there be extra services provided during the Olympics at all round your way Jamie? If so then there is a good chance that the bus drivers will need to work later shifts to cover the extra services. Also as previously said anyone with a PCV licence can drive a bus, there is a good chance that drivers may be drafted from outlying depots to cover extra services around the Olympic events.

In terms of London bus drivers basic wage, wages in and around the capital are usually higher than elsewhere due to higher living costs so just because they earn more than say Newcastle bus drivers isn't really a point here.

I'm sure I had a point when I pressed reply but its lost in my mind somewhere.

EDIT :- Personally I feel I should get a bonus if I am working the days that the Olympic events come to Glasgow, so I know how the bus drivers feel as they will be providing an integral service. Obviously there has to be a limit of who gets what, but such is the size of London it would be difficult where to draw the boundaries for what workers are deserving of a bonus.

[JamieLei]

I feel as if I'm arguing with a brick wall here.

[Nawdic]

Lastly on the case of X26, will Quality Line, now that is parent company (Epsom Coaches) is now owned by RATAP be merged into (RATAP owned) London United?

Its RATP, and they have no plans whatsoever to do a merger with London united.

You're wrong again, Mr. Fry!!

[JamieLei]

I feel as if I'm arguing with a brick wall here.

Same Here!

The increases in people going on holiday (1 return journey over a 2 week period) cannot outweigh the number of people who would no longer be commuting to work (1 return journey every weekday). The route doesn't go anywhere near any Olympic sites, so there's no direct demand affecting it. Therefore why on earth should the drivers of the H25 get paid more.

[GurraJG]

I can agree that there's a case of giving a bonus to drivers who will have to work extra shifts to cover for the Olympics, but why drivers who work the routes that are unlikely to see any sort of significant increase in work load due to the Olympics should get a bonus is beyond me....

[Nawdic]

MORE STRIKES DUE

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-18631338

[JamieLei]

There will still be a lot of people that need to travel round London and using a car is not a good idea

No, the question is, compared to a non-Olympics fortnight, what will the difference be? You've just described a normal fortnight.

[JamieLei]

No, the question is, compared to a non-Olympics fortnight, what will the difference be? You've just described a normal fortnight.

Its is bad idea to use the car during the games due to the extra traffic

The sheer extra traffic in Feltham and Bedfont? Explain to me where this extra traffic will come from please.

[JamieLei]

Ok, so people who want to do a leisure activity in Central London, people going to the supermarket, and people going on holiday.

Please tell me how this would differ from last week's traffic patterns in Bedfont and Feltham.

Edit: As the days go by, I suspect more and more that Alan Fry is a poorly designed Turing Machine.

[JamieLei]

It is likely there will be more traffic than normal, however time will tell...

I repeat:

The sheer extra traffic in Feltham and Bedfont? Explain to me where this extra traffic will come from please.

[JamieLei]

I repeat:

Ok, so people who want to do a leisure activity in Central London, people going to the supermarket, and people going on holiday.

Please tell me how this would differ from last week's traffic patterns in Bedfont and Feltham.

Edit: As the days go by, I suspect more and more that Alan Fry is a poorly designed Turing Machine.

[JamieLei]

Look I already stated why there will be extra traffic compared to last week!

And I just refuted it. Instead of picking point with my refutation, you've just gone and restated your original point. That's not how a debate works, Alan.

What's the point of coming to TT-Forums if you just want to stand in an echo chamber?

[Ameecher]

People who are heading to the olympic games will not be using their car. That's just stupid.

[Ameecher]

Because they can get around not giving them bonuses as previously discussed, you can just hire in more drivers, something you can't do on the underground system.