OTTD 3d. Sounds nice? if you like the idea, take a look.

[555gln22]

At the most basic level, getting the tracks and terrain to look like they do in RRT2 should be possible; it is still tile based like TT but with varied slopes and smooth curves.

[lonwolf89]

hmm thanks, that should be fairly decent for straight tracks for now. About the modeling part, well since you can place them anywhere and anyhow they need a foundation (box-ish). About the curves, would like to base the building tool on prefab pieces (a lot of them not just 4) to take 15 / 30/ 45 degrees turns or something approximate and also some elevation pieces (going up and down) with smooth transitions between them.

A similar system was used in Rollercoaster tycoon and allowed the player to make fairly wild tracks. But of course the goal here is to be able to place the start and end angles (for stations, and for tracks) however you want, not limited to 4 directions like most of the sims do and i know how to do it, but i'd need some curved track textures also specifically designed for those blocks (which can be rotated 360 degrees, elevated (not 20+ meters like in rollercoaster tyc ), and linked to previous blocks only in a similar manner).

[edit] and for now, there is no tile-based program-like limitation. Think about building something tile based and then being able to turn it around by any angle. Just that you build tracks however you want. We use prefabricated pieces for lots of things in the real world a lot too, so..

[edit #2] i will release the game when it will have this system working like it should and improvements/changes can be made then. Will also need to build a website (duh) with links for the libs and addons to compile the source for the coders, and place a precompiled version up so artists can change the skins (GUI, textures, materials, shaders, etc)

[CommanderZ]

You are going for a tile-based system like OTTD or RCT has, or something more freefoorm...like this?

[lonwolf89]

Something similar to that game, except that the Auto-compute paths+blocks on mouse_moved will probably be a feature introduced later, after the base of the system is in.
But in the end it will be very similar. Neglecting the beginning when you won't have a fancy algorithm to place more blocks at the same time, but a more build-piece-by-piece (this will result in a lot of buttons but will give more freedom in construction than tile-based programs).

[lonwolf89]

@Zephyris: here's some screens with the ambient+diffuse rails you attached (didn't have time to script the material for bump+normal+spec, leaving this for artist / later)

Straight railroad track

screenshot_1.jpg (72.65 KiB) Viewed 5805 times

a quick model for a station - i know it's not good looking, i'm just a coder not an artist :P, but the dimensions fit for the code purpose (it contains 3 track segments)

screenshot_2.jpg (73.37 KiB) Viewed 5808 times

p.s. for those perfectionists out there, don't flame me about no special video effect or drooling graphics, it's not on the schedule for now

Also, need some tracks for the curve sections now, if you want to modify the rail_textures to fit some new blocks pm me, or if you have something done, don't hesitate to post them here.
Before i release it, i want to finish the a freeform building system (as basic as it will be).
And those of you that want to participate in this project, keep checking in from time to time until a website is online with all the info.

[edit] There's also a paint-terrain-with-texture-at-runtime system implemented but it can't be seen in screenshots (yet )

[Zephyris]

What curve footprint do you have in mind? Single square or like in locomotion/rollercoaster tycoon?

[CommanderZ]

Something similar to that game, except that the Auto-compute paths+blocks on mouse_moved will probably be a feature introduced later, after the base of the system is in.
But in the end it will be very similar. Neglecting the beginning when you won't have a fancy algorithm to place more blocks at the same time, but a more build-piece-by-piece (this will result in a lot of buttons but will give more freedom in construction than tile-based programs).

If you look closely, Cities XL game doesn't use tiles at all. There is a demo available, I'd suggest you to get it and try how awesome can a freeform road designer be. It is surely much more complex to code than a tile based system though.

But unless you offer most features OTTD offers and something extra (or you manage to make the graphics really beautiful), you will have a really difficult time convincing OTTD fans to switch to your game.

Btw, how much trouble would it cause to increase terrain polygon density by a factor or 4-10? It seems really low-poly right now.

[lonwolf89]

@Zephyris: multiple squares like in RCT (with length based on the angle of the desired curve). I've used your textures for a 6 x 4 units block so that's a 6 units of track, so a slight curve should have around 10 in length (the width doesn't really mater since the track itself won't have a boxish foundation).

@CommanderZ: that's just a temporary terrain (the length and poly count are tuned for objects 10 times larger than the models you saw), and increasing it's segments or scaling up everything to it and increasing the terrain size isn't an issue, everything you see is temporary since also everything is relative and can easily be modified

About the road tool, i know how it works, it's not tile-based at all, seen it in Settlers 6 also as simple whatever-form-you-want paths(roads) [big settlers fan here <<] and the building mode is a lot different than using prefabs.
i have an idea on how to code it, but the thing i'm worried about is texturing with fine curves the middle of the road (or if talking about railtracks, modifying the track texture to fit the foundation - that's the real tricky part).

Also, using a prefab system prevents you from creating paths like this

freeform_road_ex.jpg (7.98 KiB) Viewed 5711 times

i fail to see the purpose of it, and also to see a long train being able to nicely travel on it.

In the end, there will be an improvement over OpenTTD system since it will have more than 4 basic track types and when the auto-pathing system for construction will be coded, it will be very similar to the one in CityXL (maybe it won't be 100% the same, but it will resemble it pretty much). That's one of the goals.

[edit]
made a screen to explain it. The absolute freeform can be done at runtime if you modify the tracks vertexes depending on the path you describe with the cursor. However there are 2 things i am not sure how to implement. 1: saving the deformed mesh to load it later. 2: fixing the texturing problem ilustraded below.
But, since it's open source, anyone with bright ideas that would like to add the possibility to construct paths with no absolute constraints (by angle on turns), it can be done

track_deform_during_runtime.jpg (20.84 KiB) Viewed 5707 times

[the curved segment was just vertex modified to simulate how the code would work on it]

but until then, i'll code the prefabs (which will offer more freedom in construction than the current system in ttd). And i say that is an improvement (one of the many that should come).

[CommanderZ]

The problem with prefabs is not in building a single flat rail, the problem comes when you start to cross, them, elevate them etc.

Even CXL, where the road tools are very good on flat terrain, fails when multiple road levels come into play. So I'm still waiting for a game, whoch would allow designing junctions like this...





Your system reminds me mostly of RCT (from what I have seen and read, I don't know settlers 6), which is not that much better than OTTD's. Do you have a plan, how to solve elevations and track juctions?

[lonwolf89]

if you remember rct, those prefabs allow you to elevate your tracks also and it's really easy to implement (same as flat terrain building). The junctions on the other hand.. i have an idea for them but it won't let you intersect 2 random tracks everywhere (but it will let you build elevated tracks so if you really want to cross 2 tracks at a <specific> point, you could do it by elevating one of them). Think about pre-making the junctions so you can't just place them everywhere but only where they were designed to fit in.

With this said, i'm sure that type of intersection you described will be build-able

and the thing is, the more complex you want the building tools, the more you add new path types to fit new types of intersections.

[edit] i also got a sketch of the pathfinding algorithms input that relies on controlled junctions.

[Zephyris]

Apologies for lack of progress on this, real life has (as usual) got really busy! I am very interested in contributing to a project like this one, don't think I am abandoning you!

[lonwolf89]

Nah, never even crossed my mind . i've hosted the sources so far and a pre-compiled exe(windows) +media folders on filefront (temporary)
you get the links from here

http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php? ... 7&p=817897

So if you wanna have some fun with the current progress (read the ReadMe.txt on that forum page before running it) go for it.
if everything goes fine they'd be on TEs page soon.

and here's a ss with blocks placed by the auto-fit algorithm:

the pieces are poor created and unaccurate but it will be fixed since they are just temporary

screenshot_1.jpg (81.34 KiB) Viewed 5376 times

[SwissFan91]

This project has got off the ground far quicker than I thought it would. Great progress !

[Gremnon]

Impressive.
I'm going to watch this with interest... I still prefer OTTD as it is now, but a 3D version could be fun to mess around in too

[lonwolf89]

I've also wrote some guidelines for those who want to code / create content on the wiki.
Also note, i have a little problem with the svn for now, so the algorithm that allowed my to build what you see in that screenshot isn't in the v0.01 rar

here's a link for those who want to hop in the project

http://www.transportempire.com/wiki/ind ... evelopment

[Satan2k]

In my opinion, i don't think it's a good idea to start something like this from scratch. Ogre is a flexible engine but really heavy when you compare it to the OTTD sdl renderer.

I had in mind to make another 3D renderer from scratch with openGL but without big modification the OTTD base code. I think it could be a good start to use the main OTTD base and make another renderer on top of it which could replace the current SDL renderer when finished.

I had something like this in mind :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=668-USF1uZ8
(it's the Playstation version of transport tycoon in 3D view)

It could be easy to code (instead of starting something from scratch) and may be a good start for a complete fork for the new 3D functionnalities, but its just speculations. (don't flame please...)

Personnaly i can't start this because i don't have any experience with the OTTD base code, but if someone goes in that way, i could help for the openGL & rendering stuff. (and by the way i have no experience with ogre too)

(i imagine a future when we could use the blender models ingame =) )

P.S. : please don't flame me about my grammar, i'm not speaking / writing english nativly, sorry.

[lonwolf89]

Yes well the problem with that is that you end up stuck with the current openttd code - build and terrain style, everything.

The purpose of OTT3D as i said it from the beginning is to support full 3d construction and altering terrain in a realistic style (base systems and functions for these 2 have already been coded).

If you want to play the Playstation 3d version, get an emulator and have fun
Or if you want to extend some features of openttd, script the 3d camera view. I'm not sure if you can do this with the engine that ottd already has, but if you'd really want to change it just to add that.. well i'm not up for it

[Satan2k]

I think poeple do play OTTD because of its gameplay. Changing the landscaping / railing possibilities will definilty change its gameplay. So i don't think it could be called OTTD anymore. You could take a look at transport empire. But i still think it's a good thing to start from a sane base instead of starting something from scratch. ( Until you have a LOT of freetime to spare )

In my opinion, i think it's a better idea to start from the job allready done on OTTD. It's less work and let you the possibility to change gameplay style on a fork later (after getting to work a full 3D renderer). And moreover you can totaly focus on the 3D rendering while the gameplay is allready implemented.

And please do not talk about the PSX version of TTD Its not enjoyable as a good netplay game on OTTD. I just posted the video to show how the 3D could not affect the main gameplay.



I do not want to discourage you. If you want to make something like lincity-ng with a OTTD-ng alike, you're free to do it

But i encourage you to not use OGRE for the portability. You can't port ogre to every device whereas SDL / Opengl can be ported (even on nintendo DS, wii, openPandora, .....)

[lonwolf89]

The funny thing is that TransportEmpire as it is now has the same gameplay as TTD.

I'll be working along side (with open source code for those who want to join) on the full 3d version of the game.
Changing gameplay to make it more complex and realistic. Of course, if you prefer ttd as it is now, i can't convince you to play the other one

[Satan2k]

Of course, if you prefer ttd as it is now, i can't convince you to play the other one

Hmm no you did not catch my drift. I was talking about the reference & the name. I was saying if you are making that kind of project to not call it "OTTD3D" or "OTTD like" when the gameplay is totaly different.

And then i was just advising you to start from an active project and then modify it instead starting everything from scratch alone. Off course if you don't it's your choice, i'm not against it. But it requires a lot of work, because you'll have to design everything (gameplay, balancing, ...) I'm just more or less against the idea of using ogre. I prefer an engine just designed to do the job, the main idea behind is : "stay fully portable & lightweight" (more over, everyone may join, even without any knowledge of ogre)


Finally i just want to say good luck and come back here to show your progress! =)