Planeset [version 1.5.3 released 2006-10-24]

[Arathorn]

Passengers: internal
Coal, iron ore, copper ore: internal
Mail: internal
Valuables/Gold/Diamonds:internal
Livestock, Grain&c, fruit: internal
Oil, water, rubber: slung bladder
Goods: slung crate or bladder [1]
Wood, steel, paper, food: internal or slung crate [2]

[1] depending on refit state (Goods(manufactured) or Goods (oily))
[2] Possibly random, possibly just one, possibly different sling sprites depending on cargo type

Discussion welcome, also, do we want to consider Toyland cargos? Currently, the PlaneSet will load in Toyland.

Will you be able to transport any available cargo with any aircaft? That doens't make sense, how economical is it to transport oil by helicopter?

[krtaylor]

there must be a way t determine if an aircraft is at a large, small, or heleport?

I believe that there is, or if not, it's been promised in a soon alpha.

As far as the economics of transporting heavy goods by aircraft, no, it isn't really, because they are expensive to run and can't carry much. But you can do it.

[Spaceball]

@Arathorn

It makes sense. Sometimes you need a small vehicle to transport something. If it will make a big profit is another question.

@DaleStan

When something is carried with a slung it should only be used between Heliports. Otherwise it does not make much sense. If the Chinook would land on a airport with a slung crate it just wouldn't work. It would work if the Chinook could directly land at the Gate but thats impossible.

cu, Spaceball

[DaleStan]

I'd say the net disappears when it lands. IRL it would hover and somebody would unhook the thing, or it would land to the side, but we can't do that.

can't we? i think its possible at a helepad, the bottom of the sprite touches the helepad,

No. What is important is the offset point. If we move this below the chopper, so the cargo touches the helipad, then either the chopper will remain ten feet or so (height-of-sling) above the tarmac on airports, or it'll jump around a lot.

there must be a way t determine if an aircraft is at a large, small, or heleport?

I believe that there is, or if not, it's been promised in a soon alpha.

Heliport vs airport, yes.
Large vs small airport, not yet. I'd guess that the current state of this feature is "implement as soon as the PlaneSet people request it." We don't yet have the graphics to use it.

and the roters could be coded to keep 'rotating'.

Oh horrors. I think so, but I really don't want to go there without a good reason. It would require a LOT of sprite duplication, and the rotors would spin in the vehicle details window too. We might have to include the rotors in the Chinook body sprites to pull this off.

As far as the economics of transporting heavy goods by aircraft, no, it isn't really, because they are expensive to run and can't carry much.

Except for the Ruslan. We *will* balance the Ruslan so it can carry cargo economically. (The Chinook too?)

EDIT:

When something is carried with a slung it should only be used between Heliports. Otherwise it does not make much sense.

That would require Yet Another 40+x variable, and would still have the same problem with the vertical offsets.

[krtaylor]

there must be a way t determine if an aircraft is at a large, small, or heleport?

I believe that there is, or if not, it's been promised in a soon alpha.

Heliport vs airport, yes.
Large vs small airport, not yet. I'd guess that the current state of this feature is "implement as soon as the PlaneSet people request it." We don't yet have the graphics to use it.

We do now. So ask for it. Eventually we'll have airstairs appear on planes at the small airport, but until then we can use the Chinook for that kind of experiment.

and the roters could be coded to keep 'rotating'.

Oh, dear... We can play with that later, but I bet it would be a LOT of work, and somewhat awkward. Not high priority.

As far as the economics of transporting heavy goods by aircraft, no, it isn't really, because they are expensive to run and can't carry much.

Except for the Ruslan. We *will* balance the Ruslan so it can carry cargo economically. (The Chinook too?)[/quote]

I don't think we need much balancing, really, as long as we can intelligently adjust the cargo capacity. If we determine the capacity of a plane in tons, then it can carry a reasonable amount of goods, but not really very much petroleum since "a pint's a pound." And of course, goods pay more than bulk cargo, and are more time-sensitive. So I don't think much diddling around is required.

When something is carried with a slung it should only be used between Heliports. Otherwise it does not make much sense.

That would require Yet Another 40+x variable, and would still have the same problem with the vertical offsets.

I say, leave it alone. We can use the airport-type-detection to determine what graphic is shown on landing - whether it hovers for the sling to be disconnected, or whether it just lands and the sling disappears before it starts taxiing.

Oh, the Ruslan needs to be coded to carry mail, I imagine it can carry quite a bit.

[DaleStan]

I'm a little bit frazzled right now; I've got almost 200 sprites to code, I have no clue how many of them I can actually use, and you folks seem dead-set on something that is really a whole lot harder than you realize, but since I seem to be the expert on airplane code, here goes:

[Large vs small airport variable]I'd guess that the current state of this feature is "implement as soon as the PlaneSet people request it." We don't yet have the graphics to use it.

We do now. So ask for it. Eventually we'll have airstairs appear on planes at the small airport, but until then we can use the Chinook for that kind of experiment.

Until we need: (1) different behavior at large vs small airports, or (2) target airport type detection, we don't need this. We can already detect whether the chopper is at a heliport or an airport

Patchman, am I correct in guessing that this 40+x will change when the byte at 0x63 does? and that the 40+x will be useless in determining what type of airport we left once 0x63 changes?

On one hand, it would be nice to know how it will work, on the other, it would be nice to know what we need it for, so we get foo instead of bar or baz.

We can use the airport-type-detection to determine what graphic is shown on landing - whether it hovers for the sling to be disconnected, or whether it just lands and the sling disappears before it starts taxiing.

In order to do that, we'd have to move the offset relative to the body of the Chinook.
If the Chinook body is $HEIGHT_OF_SLING above the helipad, then either:
1) It will also be $HEIGHT_OF_SLING above the airport tarmac, or
2) At some point, the Chinook must move vertically by $HEIGHT_OF_SLING.
2a) It might be possible to animate this correctly (there could be problems with heliports at maximum height), but this would require ~15 copies of the Chinook sprites (*including* the rotor sprites).
2b) Alternatively, the Chinook just jumps by ~15 pixels at some point. (2 copies of the Chinook sprites, again including the rotors)

Unless someone wants to code option 2a, or can produce an argument that option 2b is preferable to "no special treatment", I'm going leave the offsets as-is.

Oh, the Ruslan needs to be coded to carry mail, I imagine it can carry quite a bit.

I've posted the necessary change, and it will be included in the next version of the Ruslan.

[Patchman]

[Large vs small airport variable]I'd guess that the current state of this feature is "implement as soon as the PlaneSet people request it." We don't yet have the graphics to use it.

We do now. So ask for it. Eventually we'll have airstairs appear on planes at the small airport, but until then we can use the Chinook for that kind of experiment.

Until we need: (1) different behavior at large vs small airports, or (2) target airport type detection, we don't need this. We can already detect whether the chopper is at a heliport or an airport

Patchman, am I correct in guessing that this 40+x will change when the byte at 0x63 does? and that the 40+x will be useless in determining what type of airport we left once 0x63 changes?

I don't think 0x63 changes until the plane has finished ascent. In any case I'll be able to figure out which airport it's leaving from because it still needs to mark the runway as unoccupied then. Just tell me what you want to know exactly...

[krtaylor]

I don't think 0x63 changes until the plane has finished ascent. In any case I'll be able to figure out which airport it's leaving from because it still needs to mark the runway as unoccupied then. Just tell me what you want to know exactly...

I would say, the maximum possible things we could want to know are as follows, both when landing and when taking off:

The type of airport (small, large, helipad, oil rig)
Which stall it came from/is going to (in the case of the small and large)

Other than that, I don't think there's anything else relevant, is there?

[Aydan]

Some eye candy:
747 with external gargo pod and one with open cargo hatches.

[krtaylor]

I love the open hatches. About the cargo pod, is that for real? I know the space shuttle rides up there, but I'm not aware of any other cargo that does that.

[DaleStan]

Which stall it came from/is going to (in the case of the small and large)

That we can already get, from 0x66.

I don't think 0x63 changes until the plane has finished ascent. In any case I'll be able to figure out which airport it's leaving from because it still needs to mark the runway as unoccupied then. Just tell me what you want to know exactly...

We'll definitely need to know what type of airport the plane is at, so we can display airstairs the small airports only.

Spaceball wants to be able to detect source and destination[0] airport types, so that slung cargoes will only be used on heliport-to-heliport runs, but I'm convinced that'll cause offset problems.

IMO, it would be sufficient to get the airport-type byte (0x81) from the station pointed to by vehicle byte 0x63.

[0] "source" and "destination" might have interesting definitions when the aircraft is on the ground (at the gate?)

[Patchman]

OK.

[0] "source" and "destination" might have interesting definitions when the aircraft is on the ground (at the gate?)

Or when you tell a heli to go to the nearest hangar while in flight...

[Aydan]

the 747 was never intended fo extrnal cargo, but the An-225 was designed to carry all sorts of space related stuff externally. Since the 225 is not in the planeset I adapted this. If you wanna use it or not is your choice. If so i could make a load/unload ani showing mounting/removal of the pod.

[krtaylor]

Spaceball wants to be able to detect source and destination[0] airport types, so that slung cargoes will only be used on heliport-to-heliport runs, but I'm convinced that'll cause offset problems.

I agree. I don't think it's necessary either.

When landing at a helipad, the helicopter hovers while the sling is played with. (If this is possible).

When landing at an airport, the helicopter lands with the sling (and cargo) to one side, and then the cargo vanishes when the helicopter starts taxiing to the gate. Graphically it'll work, and I think that's the best we can reasonably do. We want to see the cargo slings while the helicopter is in flight, and what happens at the airports doesn't have to be 100% accurate as long as it's not glaringly illogical.

Re external cargo, I would kind of like to see the Space Shuttle carrier, as a sort of easter egg. Not required though.

[DaleStan]

Aydan, can I get you to re-render the Zeppelins? Both north-bound Zeps are missing their top tail fin (or else it turned grey somehow?), and the NE, N, and NW bound Hindenburgs have some sort of lighting problem with their tails.

Also, 2/3 size E-bound sprites would be nice, but not required; I can create them easily enough.

[krtaylor]

Aydan, could you repost them separately? I tried to split them into two files myself, and maybe that's what happened to the fins.

[DaleStan]

That's not likely, considering I grabbed the GFX straight from Aydan's post.

Re:Cargo planes
By default, aircraft cannot carry oil. I think the Ruslan is coded so it can carry oil; (1) should it be able to? (2) Are there any other aircraft that should be able to?

[Spaceball]

What should I draw then?

I could draw the barrels and the container in different Colors that it will be randomize like in MBs DB Set with the containers.

@taylor

The Idea with the Spaceshuttle is great. I like those kind of fun.

cu, Spaceball

[krtaylor]

I could draw the barrels and the container in different Colors that it will be randomize like in MBs DB Set with the containers.

Yes, definitely.

@DaleStan - I don't have problems with planes carrying oil and water, after all, planes both large and small have been and can be converted into tankers. BUT you have to adjust the capacity based on the cargo weight capacity of the aircraft, and fluid weights. So they might not be able to carry that much.

[The Irish]

Hi guys

Two remarks/questions from my side.

First: The B747 freighter with the nose moved upwards really only has to be in two directions: / and \

I assume that these sprites are intended to when the plane is on the ground and loading. so it can only stand at the three docks at the airport.

second:
With all the new patch features of having new station types etc. wouldn't it be possible to create a new type of airport for cargo only?
ie having the same ground movement as the big airport, but instead of the terminal buildings, it would only have some hangars and freight trucks, and no finger-docks.