ECS vectors v1.1.2 (by George) 19/06/2011

[Kjell Bjarne]

It does not sound like a power plant, but like a boiler house. ...

I wonder that you, as a citizien of the former Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, are not familiar with combined heat and power plants.

They should only be allowed inside cities. Smaller than the existing ones, the graphics and the amount of consumption.

ТЭЦ are rather large, I have 2 nearby, I know what they are. But SPb is a big city. In OTTD cities are much smaller, and putting a power plant (the size should remain) near every town would look very ugly. For small towns, which you have in the beginning of the game, about 15 houses, only a boiler house will fit.

The size of these power plants is not fixed. It depends on the amount of people they are serving.

But in TTD context the CHP-plant of my hometown could be an good example. It serves about 15.000 inhabitants.


A plant like this could be placed on 4 TTD tiles. And doesn't look that bad in my mind. It works with small cities and isn't too small for bigger ones.


I would like it more than the normal TTD power plants. In the real world they would be next to a mine and us a conveyor belt instead TTD-like vehicles.

[George]

The size of these power plants is not fixed. It depends on the amount of people they are serving.
But in TTD context the CHP-plant of my hometown could be an good example. It serves about 15.000 inhabitants.
A plant like this could be placed on 4 TTD tiles. And doesn't look that bad in my mind. It works with small cities and isn't too small for bigger ones.
I would like it more than the normal TTD power plants. In the real world they would be next to a mine and us a conveyor belt instead TTD-like vehicles.

That would require drawing new industry tiles, the thing I do not plan to do any time soon. As for existing tiles the main building is 2x3 tiles, that does not fit your concept, because adding minimal amount of other tiles would make it at least 4x5 tiles.

Conclusion:
I do not see an easy solution for your request, and I do not plan to provide some laborious solution because I do not have time&wish to do it. If you can suggest an easy solution or would like to make the sprites, discussion of this suggestion can be continued.

[George]

I got a feedback from a player. He said that raw material industries produce too much, and their production level grow is too fast.
What do other players think about it? may be there are some suggestions?

[Hyronymus]

I have created a seperate topic for the discussion about electricity.

See http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=52505.

[Kjell Bjarne]

The size of these power plants is not fixed. It depends on the amount of people they are serving.
But in TTD context the CHP-plant of my hometown could be an good example. It serves about 15.000 inhabitants.
A plant like this could be placed on 4 TTD tiles. And doesn't look that bad in my mind. It works with small cities and isn't too small for bigger ones.
I would like it more than the normal TTD power plants. In the real world they would be next to a mine and us a conveyor belt instead TTD-like vehicles.

That would require drawing new industry tiles, the thing I do not plan to do any time soon. As for existing tiles the main building is 2x3 tiles, that does not fit your concept, because adding minimal amount of other tiles would make it at least 4x5 tiles.

Conclusion:
I do not see an easy solution for your request, and I do not plan to provide some laborious solution because I do not have time&wish to do it. If you can suggest an easy solution or would like to make the sprites, discussion of this suggestion can be continued.

I wouldn't call it a request, just a suggestion. The problem was that I had the feeling you hadn't understand what I suggested. "eye-candy"

btw. The new power plants of v1.0 look amazing and even better they got the 4 eras. Great job.

[George]

I do not see an easy solution for your request, and I do not plan to provide some laborious solution because I do not have time&wish to do it. If you can suggest an easy solution or would like to make the sprites, discussion of this suggestion can be continued.

I wouldn't call it a request, just a suggestion.

It does not change amount of work to do

The problem was that I had the feeling you hadn't understand what I suggested. "eye-candy"

You have suggested small power plants.

btw. The new power plants of v1.0 look amazing and even better they got the 4 eras. Great job.

Zimmlock has drawn them, I drew only the snow.

Conclusion. Do not expect any solution soon There are many more urgent tasks. And in case electricity transportation is done, the chance of small power plants would be even less probable.

[George]

Hi, I want to draw a house located at
Osterstraße, Hameln, Deutschland 28
Could someone help me with good photos of it?

[michael blunck]

Hi, I want to draw a house located at
Osterstraße, Hameln, Deutschland 28
Could someone help me with god photos of it?

http://www.google.de/images?hl=de&gbv=1 ... btnG=Suche

HTH
regards
Michael

[George]

http://www.google.de/images?hl=de&gbv=1 ... btnG=Suche

Thank you. And WTF is there on the left http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_aQE-4419LRY/S ... erhaus.jpg ?
Here there is something different http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... us1898.jpg

[michael blunck]

And WTF is there on the left [link] ?

Well, some other house. Possibly rebuilt, because some years ago it held a drugstore.

Here there is something different [link]

That´s a quite old picture.

regards
Michael

[George]

And WTF is there on the left [link] ?

Well, some other house. Possibly rebuilt, because some years ago it held a drugstore.

Here there is something different [link]

That´s a quite old picture.

This modern house definitely does not fit

[michael blunck]

This modern house definitely does not fit

Well, it´s not my fault.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pied_Piper's_House

regards
Michael

[Fenris]

I got a feedback from a player. He said that raw material industries produce too much, and their production level grow is too fast.
What do other players think about it? may be there are some suggestions?

I hope my english is good enough to explain my opinion on that. Unfortunatly i havent had the time to test the new version of ECS, but I played several games with the beta 5. So if there were any changes i may be wrong now.

In my opinion, it is much fun to play with ECS as long as you use the right vehicle set and play in modern times. Then you have strong engines and big cargo wagons, so it is possible to handle the output of the most industries. But if you play with NARS2 for example or in the years from 1900 to 1960 with the most other sets, it can be very painful, especially if you want to build an "realistic" network.

Take the oilwell for example (this was the worst one in my games). At 100% you need an endless stream of trains to keep your rating up, even if you have tankwagons with capacities of 40.000 l. With the small and slow ones from 1920 it is impossible to handle this output. The best solution for this problem could be a parameter, to cut down the production of rawmaterials, if this is possible. So you can set the maximal output to the level you want. I think i'm not the only one, who sometime wishes to play a map only with steamlocos and without 4 tracks for every direction and giant roundabout-junctions.

But this isn't only a ECS-problem. With FIRS you can get to the same point. But there you can stop the increase with parameters or handle it with the delivery of supplies. The main problem is, that the vehicles from nearly all sets have realistic power an capacities for the time they can be built, but the industries are not (or not enough) adjusted to that.

[andythenorth]

Balancing industry production is quite hard

If I paraphrase two kinds of player feedback for FIRS...
- "FIRS industries produce *way* too much cargo for the vehicle sets"
- "I've flooded my industry with supplies for years, and I still can't get as much cargo as I want"

I wouldn't be surprised if George had a similar design challenge

I've considered a parameter for FIRS - 'production: low / high'. But adding parameters for every possibility sucks. Every parameter option increases the amount of testing needed, it makes bug reports harder to fix, and it makes maintaining the code really tough.

[michael blunck]

[parameters]

IMO, it´d already be helpful to make (some more) game difficulty settings available to newgrfs.

regards
Michael

[wallyweb]

Maybe this is already in effect but if not, here is my suggestion:
- A progressive increase in the rate of production over time.
- Use 1921 as the base production rate.
- For earlier years the rate would be lower and grow to that of the base year.
- For later years the rate would be higher and grow from that of the base year.
- For difficulty settings, a parameter could be used to adjust the base year production rate. The algorithm would then automatically adjust earlier and later year rates accordingly.

[Hyronymus]

[parameters]

IMO, it´d already be helpful to make (some more) game difficulty settings available to newgrfs.

regards
Michael

Like what then? The influence construction costs have over purchasing costs of vehicles would be one I can do without.

[George]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pied_Piper's_House

Mihcael, and why do windows on the right are differsnt on old pictures
http://www.goethezeitportal.de/fileadmi ... 0x777_.jpg
and modern ones
http://img.cosmotourist.net/picture/sho ... 36/fw/1/t/
while windows on the left looks the same? Was the house rebuild/repaired?

[Hyronymus]

George, why isn't it possible to lower land under your industries? Even though I choose to allow it in the game settings I simply can't .

[George]

George, why isn't it possible to lower land under your industries? Even though I choose to allow it in the game settings I simply can't .

In the todo list
Simple allowing it causes some problems with
1) snow graphics in some cases.
2) slope graphics in some cases.
It can be fixed, but requires additional code and more checks, that have to be done.

Anyway, some tiles would disallow sloping in any case (tiles with gates for example)