George's Long vehicles V4 beta4 is out (07 sep 2007)

[DaleStan]

Look at the box while turning on a small speed. You can see, that sometimes it moves back (that I called jump)

Ah. I'm pretty sure that's an offset issue. Very simple to fix, but incredibly tedious. I'll look into it, but it may be a while. I'm not sure it can be done right for the three-chassis busses (eg the Dolphin), because of how the display engine works.

[George]

Look at the box while turning on a small speed. You can see, that sometimes it moves back (that I called jump)

Ah. I'm pretty sure that's an offset issue. Very simple to fix, but incredibly tedious. I'll look into it, but it may be a while. I'm not sure it can be done right for the three-chassis busses (eg the Dolphin), because of how the display engine works.

Hm. I researched position analyse when made my first version of the test file, and I don't know, why is it impossible for bi-articulated engines. Could you explain?

[DaleStan]

Because the point that moves smothly is the offset point. For the dual-chassis busses, the offset point will be put near the articulation point, so bending won't cause one chassis to jump sideways. For the Dolphin, the offset point will probably have to go in the center of the middle chassis. When this chassis turns, the back and/or front chassis may jump sideways in the process.

OTOH, I could be making mountains out of molehills here. It might be that it's only a matter of 2 px, and that it really doesn't look bad at all.

The Dolphin might look better with 32 or 40 sprites; the extras being the doubly-bent views:

Code: Select all

       __     /  \ 
\__/  /  \   |    |   ...
              \  /

(32 with only N/S/E/W-oriented center chassis, 40 with all of them)
It would not be hard to patch these into the 24-direction GRF I posted.

[George]

Because the point that moves smothly is the offset point. For the dual-chassis busses, the offset point will be put near the articulation point, so bending won't cause one chassis to jump sideways. For the Dolphin, the offset point will probably have to go in the center of the middle chassis. When this chassis turns, the back and/or front chassis may jump sideways in the process.

OTOH, I could be making mountains out of molehills here. It might be that it's only a matter of 2 px, and that it really doesn't look bad at all.

The Dolphin might look better with 32 or 40 sprites; the extras being the doubly-bent views:

Code: Select all

       __     /  \ 
\__/  /  \   |    |   ...
              \  /

(32 with only N/S/E/W-oriented center chassis, 40 with all of them)
It would not be hard to patch these into the 24-direction GRF I posted.

So, you want to say, the problem is visual, not technical. I see. Well, waiting for successful result with boxes. Should I start preparing turning buses graphics now?

[PikkaBird]

I like this... it's not quite as good as chain-able road vehicles would be (imagine being able to buy a tractor and trailer as seperate units , but it might make half decent semi trailers possible.

All we need now are through loading bays (like the bus stops), and road waypoints. Any chance of them appearing any time soon?

[George]

I like this... it's not quite as good as chain-able road vehicles would be (imagine being able to buy a tractor and trailer as seperate units , but it might make half decent semi trailers possible.
All we need now are through loading bays (like the bus stops), and road waypoints. Any chance of them appearing any time soon?

Well, I think if you'll ask Oskar to do it, it woold not be too hard for him to copy bus-stop code to lorries code.

[PikkaBird]

Well, I think if you'll ask Oskar to do it, it woold not be too hard for him to copy bus-stop code to lorries code.

That is what I was thinking. I shall PM him and ask if it is possible.

Edit: A graphic modified from the depot sprites, It's something to be going on with at least.

[krtaylor]

Why would we want through-stations for lorries? Real ones rarely load that way.

[Wile E. Coyote]

Why would we want through-stations for lorries? Real ones rarely load that way.

Oh, you've never been in Serbia. Trucks are unloading everywhere So it's good to have these stations

[PikkaBird]

Why would we want through-stations for lorries? Real ones rarely load that way.

Longer vehicles spinning on the spot, in a bay they don't fit in anyway, is even less realistic.

Don't think of it like a bus stop, a place where trucks stop on the street to load and unload. It's still a loading bay, and should probably be placed off the street so other vehicles aren't running through it. It's just a loading bay where trucks drive in one side and out the other, rather than turning around in situ.

[krtaylor]

From the way bus-stations work, I would suspect that vehicles would treat drive-through truck loading depots as if they were roads anyway. Maybe that could be changed though.

[PikkaBird]

From the way bus-stations work, I would suspect that vehicles would treat drive-through truck loading depots as if they were roads anyway. Maybe that could be changed though.

Yes, they would, and that's fine. I meant more in the way the human player would use them - building them on a proper little road complex, rather than just plonking them down in the middle of the main street of town.

[krtaylor]

Well, I suppose it does no harm to ask eis_os about making drive-through RV depots. It sounds like it shouldn't be that hard, given that we have them for busses. But you never know.

[DaleStan]

So, you want to say, the problem is visual, not technical. I see.

Yes, the problem is visual. Due to some sprite inconsistencies, I can't get the offsets perfect (they're all within 2 px of right, though)

- Alternately bend and straighten the bus, keeping one of the sections motionless. The bus will travel 2px right per clockwise rotation, and 1px right per counterclockwise rotation.
- Some of the horizontal sections in the bent sprites are 1px shorter than all the others, see attached.

I wasn't sure how useful the box-sprite-coding will be; I just continued working on the articulated bus. Assuming you can fix the first problem without too much trouble, it looks like the articulated busses are a go.

Here's a GRF with the adjusted offsets.

[Snail]

Maybe I'm coming in the wrong moment, as there's already plenty of stuff you guys are working on, but I'll ask anyway...

2George: Do you think you might still be interested in Steyr trucks at all, if not now maybe in the future? Seeing your priorities, I think we could include the 370 version of 1947 and put it in the 1945 slot. I've collected some pics and drawings I could send you (or anyone else) in order to draw those things. I think they'd make a good addition and would be great in the artic/alpine climate, too (since they were Austrian).

[George]

So, you want to say, the problem is visual, not technical. I see.

Yes, the problem is visual. Due to some sprite inconsistencies, I can't get the offsets perfect (they're all within 2 px of right, though)

That makes movement less smooth

- Alternately bend and straighten the bus, keeping one of the sections motionless. The bus will travel 2px right per clockwise rotation, and 1px right per counterclockwise rotation.

I see

- Some of the horizontal sections in the bent sprites are 1px shorter than all the others, see attached.

The error is in the horisontal view, not in the part of the horisontal view. It is 1 px higher, than it should be. I fixed it long ago in the LV file, but not in the test file

I wasn't sure how useful the box-sprite-coding will be; I just continued working on the articulated bus.

It could allow using the same template for all the articulated buses ...

Do you think you might still be interested in Steyr trucks at all, if not now maybe in the future?

I'm always interested, but I do not know when I can realise my interest As you can see, I planned to finish Skoda on 31 march but could do it only in the end of may

Seeing your priorities, I think we could include the 370 version of 1947 and put it in the 1945 slot. I've collected some pics and drawings I could send you (or anyone else) in order to draw those things.

Feel free to post them to me as soon as you get them

I think they'd make a good addition and would be great in the artic/alpine climate, too (since they were Austrian).

I do not plan to draw snow-covered trucks

[George]

I proudly represent you the new bus And I need its weight

[krtaylor]

Say, George, what are the differences between the LV v. 3, and the new fractional version?

[George]

Say, George, what are the differences between the LV v. 3, and the new fractional version?

Do you remember our discussion about the number of the IDs required for one truck? I wrote that I require at least two IDs per truck because it was possible to have only one trigger per ID (And I need random cargo and random livery). But Josef made it possible to separate triggers random bits in the random value byte. That made it possible to use 5 bits for the random cargo trigger and 3 bits for random livery trigger. That allows to place all the cargos and views of the truck to one ID. If you will look at any 33/4 version file, you see, that only one ID is used for the whole truck. For example, Opel-Blitz 3.6-36S truck uses only ID 13 in temperate and arctic and ID 2E in tropics. Previously it used IDs 25, 22, 13 in temperate, 22, 2B, 37 in arctic, 13, 13, 2E in tropics. This allows having two additional slots for buses.
So, the aim of the new version is to release slots for buses. This way we get 55 slots for buses (instead of 7 by default). Yes, we pay with long refit list for trucks, but I hope Josef could help us with this problem

[krtaylor]

Aha. That's an excellent improvement, actually!

So the new LV has pretty much all the same vehicles in it, just with one slot each instead of 3? Otherwise, everything's there in much the same way as before?