[OTTD] FISH....FISH FISH FISH FISH (work in progress)

[andythenorth]

But I have some questions: Why are the ships have the same properties except the capacity?

Same reason HEQS vehicles all cost the same - I haven't got around to changing these properties yet

I guess I should set them..but it takes time and testing to figure out the right purchase and running costs, and it's definitely not the most exciting part of creating a grf.

[DJ Nekkid]

use excel and set up a algorythm for thoose two properties

[andythenorth]

use excel and set up a algorythm for thoose two properties

Interesting idea. Calculated on what? I figure there should be a number like cost-per-ton, based on:
- running costs
- purchase cost
- lifespan

cheers,

Andy

[PikkaBird]

and it's definitely not the most exciting part of creating a grf.

Wut?

[colossal404]

I think the costs and others were just calculated to each other of the ships.
Every ship would have vantages and disadvantages.
For example:
The tow boats can be load very fast, but runs slow, and can carry a medium amount of cargo, and it's got low price, and high running cost.
The river/canal ships can be loaded medium speed, it goes fater than a tow boat, can carry a little less than tow boats, it's expensive but low running cost.
The sea ships were loaded slowly, it can haul extra large amount of cargo, and because we can't control to it can go only on sea, not in canals, we have to adjust the running cost and buy price to a very high number.

It's only an idea, I set up the prices of the vehicles to each other in my set, like above.

[andythenorth]

and it's definitely not the most exciting part of creating a grf.

Wut?

Well feel free to help! I've read some of your stuff about running costs...you've certainly put some care into costs in NARS

re: gameplay. With FISH, I've spread the ships across a range of sizes because it's irksome to have a unit train arrive at a dock and have the waiting ships leave 10% of the cargo behind.

I won't go in 10t capacity increments because that would be crazy talk, but I've tried to give a good spread, and match to some common multiples of wagon or RV sizes.

For this reason I haven't envisaged much in the way of players choosing one ship instead of another due to speed, cost or running costs. Most freight ships are slow, expensive to buy, and offer a cheap way of moving bulk cargo. I'll probably run them all at roughly the same cost per ton.

Ferries/passenger steamers might have a bit more variety on speed / cost etc.

cheers,

Andy

[DJ Nekkid]

use excel and set up a algorythm for thoose two properties

Interesting idea. Calculated on what? I figure there should be a number like cost-per-ton, based on:
- running costs
- purchase cost
- lifespan

cheers,

Andy

Have a look at the excel files in all of "my" projects in the devzone, and then modify and adjust as you please

And both running and purchase costs of a ship would mostly consist of how large it is. Larger ship needs more steel, crew and diesel

[PikkaBird]

Larger ship needs more steel, crew and diesel

But not linearly...

Personally, if we're costing these ships from scratch, I'd start out building a bunch of "typical" routes and see how much income the ships make. You can then use the running costs and ship cost to balance (perhaps, for a ship with a 30-year lifespan, you'd want it to pay for itself in 10-15 years?). Variable running costs (more expensive when loaded, perhaps?) could be considered to help keep ships profitable-but-not-too-profitable when used atypically.

Of course, you wouldn't need to do this balancing for every ship; do it for a few, then extrapolate the rest. You can always go back and alter the numbers if it proves that some ships end up too cheap or too expensive.

Edit: I'd be more than happy to help with numbers if you like.

[andythenorth]

Edit: I'd be more than happy to help with numbers if you like.

Yes that would be most welcome, thanks.

I did think about the different RL factors that would affect costs, but I don't think they make a blind bit of difference to gameplay. I prefer your suggestion of test - tweak - test.

[DJ Nekkid]

I think we quite agree pikka, on how to apply running costs on a nice matter But a spreadsheet have helped me very much in my past codeing, to add a more or less correct picture on how high or low they should be compared to eachother...

And changeing running costs depending on different parameters are usually quite easy. Speed and ammount of cargo for example.

[Sensation Lover]

nice ships...i just downloaded the grf...can t wait to try it this evening!!!

[el koeno]

Larger ship needs more steel, crew and diesel

But not linearly...

Personally, if we're costing these ships from scratch, I'd start out building a bunch of "typical" routes and see how much income the ships make. You can then use the running costs and ship cost to balance (perhaps, for a ship with a 30-year lifespan, you'd want it to pay for itself in 10-15 years?). Variable running costs (more expensive when loaded, perhaps?) could be considered to help keep ships profitable-but-not-too-profitable when used atypically.

Of course, you wouldn't need to do this balancing for every ship; do it for a few, then extrapolate the rest. You can always go back and alter the numbers if it proves that some ships end up too cheap or too expensive.

Edit: I'd be more than happy to help with numbers if you like.

That seems a bit of a low return. A 10 years "payback time" would imply a (compound) rate of return of about 7%, if I'm not mistaken. If you've set interest to 5%, you've got 2% return to build infrastructure (granted, that is not very expensive in boats), and expand your "empire" (or network if you're not into megalomania). That would mean if you're playing an all-ships game, most of the time you'd just be sitting there, watching your boats go. With trains you can fiddle around a bit with your infrastructure, but with boats this is not possible of course.

[andythenorth]

Not quite FISH 2, but I've been playing a test game and decided to adjust the range of ships and their capacities.

The attached grf is *not* save-game compatible with previous versions of FISH. However it does feature a new ship type - Island Trader.

cheers,

Andy

island_trader.png (51.78 KiB) Viewed 2968 times

[Sensation Lover]

do you plan to do something like this to carry coal and iron ore thru the inland canals?
or even that type of cruise boat with one big "weel" on a side of it ... do you understand what i'm meaning?
it will be nice...

[colossal404]

It's called tow boat, already in the set as big floating box. I think it will be drawn.

[Sensation Lover]

It's called tow boat, already in the set as big floating box. I think it will be drawn.

for the one in the picture is tow boat. but i was meaning of a second boat... something like the one in tom sawyer cartoon... but that one have the "big weel" in the back... i was meaning to another one that has the "big weel" on a side of it... i don t know the name and i didn t foud any photos to post... i don t know if you ever saw old movies with nile expeditions or cruises... they were using a steamboat with a "big weel" on left or right side...

sorry for missing the name of it

[Sensation Lover]

here s something

[pietjeklap]

I think its a Paddle steamer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddle_steamer




Maybe you can use this ship for a passenger carrier.

Stena Discovery:

[andythenorth]

... they were using a steamboat with a "big weel" on left or right side...

There will be both side-wheel paddle steamers, and stern-wheelers (wheel at the back).

[Sensation Lover]

There will be both side-wheel paddle steamers, and stern-wheelers (wheel at the back).