Top ten most over crowded trains

[Dave]

And Liverpool...

And Cardiff...

[Kevo00]

Or even Glasgow Central or Edinburgh Waverley. Or Newcastle, or anywhere in the Tees Valley...

[teccuk]

Damn... the railways are fu**ing disgrace.

[Dave]

Leeds!

[Pottsy]

Yes Leeds, Manchester Piccadilly, Bradford interchange. The whole west Yorkshire and east Lancashire area is bad. Whats more. The grand central service to London Terminates at Bradford not Leeds. Meaning some of the Pacers and sprinters on the line through Bramley and New Pudsey can get very crowded.

[orudge]

Right up until Gretna.

That's because you're entering the south. Once you get to the proper north again, though, you're all fine.

[Dave]

Isn't Bradford north of Leeds?

[Pottsy]

Both Bradford's Rail stations are west of Leeds. Look at the map from National rail

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/ga ... /Leeds.pdf

[Badger]

Isn't Bradford north of Leeds?

Not a lot in it really.

[JamieLei]

I'd be surprised if many routes use two car diesels on rush hour routes out of major centres?

I'd avoid Manchester Piccadilly.

And Birmingham (alright three car, but still)

Nah I've often taken 2-car 150s on the Worcester Line out of New Street! Absolutely packed and standing... on a Sunday afternoon!

[dasy2k1]

Anything between MAN and SHF which is either a 3 car 185 by tpe, or a 2 or very rarely 4 car 158 by emt is often full to capacity, especially on Friday! Don't expect a seat even if you do reserve one, emt's reservation system goes t**s up if someone so much as sneezes nearby....

There is allways the northern 142 which often has seats, but it stops every 100 yards

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[teccuk]

So. Angry.

This is easy to fix.

[Ameecher]

So. Angry.

This is easy to fix.

You offering the money then?

[Dave]

What is it, £1m a carriage now?

[EXTspotter]

Something in that area. Even so, other transport projects, e.g. the Edinburgh trams, which was originally budgeted for £545m has now grown to £1061m. The thameslink project (or the train procurement part anyway) has a £1400m budget for 1200 carriages. Seeing the current urgent need to DMUs which has been raised before, why is it not possible for the government to spend say £140m to provide 120 new DMU carriages to augment the current DMU fleet, allowing older DMUs e.g. some pacers to be disposed of as electrification grows across the network, which would in effect leave the areas of the country which are unlikely to become electrified in the near future - Penzance - Bristol and - Reading, North of Scotland, Cambrian line... with less old stock by the time cascading takes place.

[Kevo00]

So. Angry.

This is easy to fix.

What incentive are you going to give them to do it? Probably two trains a day out of twenty are overcapacity on these routes; less than half run under capacity. Even if you took the dead hand of the state out of the equation, its hard to see how things would change, without a considerable increase in passenger numbers at least.

Mind you, I bet the Chinese don't pay £1m a carriage - another example of UK rail industry inflation syndrome I suspect.

[dasy2k1]

If you are taking about man-shf then most trains are fairly full with over half having standees, it's just a few a day that are packed like cattle trucks. Emt in all fairness managed to get hold of a load more 158s to strengthen the route between liv and not (split at not, front half goes on to Norwich, rear half joins to the next Liverpool train that has come from Norwich)

Works well when it happens, but the dft seeing all these extra trains made emt increase frequently on some other routes and use all these units for other things

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[JamieLei]

So. Angry.

This is easy to fix.

What incentive are you going to give them to do it? Probably two trains a day out of twenty are overcapacity on these routes; less than half run under capacity. Even if you took the dead hand of the state out of the equation, its hard to see how things would change, without a considerable increase in passenger numbers at least.

Mind you, I bet the Chinese don't pay £1m a carriage - another example of UK rail industry inflation syndrome I suspect.

Yes, but we all know what's just happened with Chinese high-speed carriages unfortunately... - they might have made things cheaper but safety seems to be lacking a little bit...

Generally a new carriage is 1.5million. I believe that's what the new 172s are costing, and what the 350s also cost.

[teccuk]

So. Angry.

This is easy to fix.

You offering the money then?

Hmm. But that's the point. In transport terms this isn't that much money. The price of a bypass of busway, i.e. a single major scheme could buy a lot of stock.

London-centric vanity projects crossrail and HS2, stand at many billions... what's a billion for 400 or so three car sets? If steel like older DMU's they will last 40 years, as the 150's have done, safely considered an 'investment'.

The impact would be country-wide, benefiting many millions of people almost instantly (in rail terms).

[61653]

So. Angry.

This is easy to fix.

What incentive are you going to give them to do it? Probably two trains a day out of twenty are overcapacity on these routes; less than half run under capacity. Even if you took the dead hand of the state out of the equation, its hard to see how things would change, without a considerable increase in passenger numbers at least.

Mind you, I bet the Chinese don't pay £1m a carriage - another example of UK rail industry inflation syndrome I suspect.

Yes, but we all know what's just happened with Chinese high-speed carriages unfortunately... - they might have made things cheaper but safety seems to be lacking a little bit...

Generally a new carriage is 1.5million. I believe that's what the new 172s are costing, and what the 350s also cost.

Surely by placing an order for 1,300 or so vehicles, as was the plan a few years ago, would allow a drop in the per-unit cost, simply through economies of scale?