Wrexham and Shropshire to close

[Dave]

I suppose my argument would go under if Dave counted as more than 1 person.

I'd be very surprised if more than 10% of train stations in the country have more than 1 "sensible" route to London. Sensible by normal people standards, not railfans, before people start proclaiming to merits of Manchester to London via Sheffield, etc.

Chiltern, LM, Virgin or FGW. I can do any of those in less time than it takes to get from Shrews to London with W&S.

[JamieLei]

I suppose my argument would go under if Dave counted as more than 1 person.

I'd be very surprised if more than 10% of train stations in the country have more than 1 "sensible" route to London. Sensible by normal people standards, not railfans, before people start proclaiming to merits of Manchester to London via Sheffield, etc.

Chiltern, LM, Virgin or FGW. I can do any of those in less time than it takes to get from Shrews to London with W&S.

To be fair though, FGW and LM aren't really proper options if you were a businessman. FGW is only really an option if you live near Worcester, and actually I was on a Birmingham - Hereford (via Bromsgrove) train last summer, having a lovely chat with a flower shop owner returning back on a business trip from London to Droitwich via Birmingham. He says he always travels that way because FGW takes just so bloody long and is unreliable (even changing at New Street can result in journeys of only 2 hours, compared to the direct service from Worcester of over 2 and a half). Hence based on his travelling patters, I think its safe to say that if there's a significant time saving to be had by changing compared to the direct service, businessmen will take it.

[Dave]

I suppose my argument would go under if Dave counted as more than 1 person.

I'd be very surprised if more than 10% of train stations in the country have more than 1 "sensible" route to London. Sensible by normal people standards, not railfans, before people start proclaiming to merits of Manchester to London via Sheffield, etc.

Chiltern, LM, Virgin or FGW. I can do any of those in less time than it takes to get from Shrews to London with W&S.

To be fair though, FGW and LM aren't really proper options if you were a businessman. FGW is only really an option if you live near Worcester, and actually I was on a Birmingham - Hereford (via Bromsgrove) train last summer, having a lovely chat with a flower shop owner returning back on a business trip from London to Droitwich via Birmingham. He says he always travels that way because FGW takes just so bloody long and is unreliable (even changing at New Street can result in journeys of only 2 hours, compared to the direct service from Worcester of over 2 and a half). Hence based on his travelling patters, I think its safe to say that if there's a significant time saving to be had by changing compared to the direct service, businessmen will take it.

I'm sorry I didn't see you specify anywhere that every "normal person" and their standards were businessmen.

Many leisure travellers will avoid Virgin because it's geared towards the businessman, which is fine in the week, but if I can get a Fam4 ticket with Chiltern to London for £75 walk-up on a Saturday morning... Why exactly am I going to spend £200 to get the family to London on Virgin. The trains are not significantly better and these days the fact they're 45 minutes quicker isn't worth 150% of the price you pay.. Virgin, to me, is a dying rail operator. They won't be given the WC franchise. I hope whoever does has the sense to invest in electric technology to bin the Voyagers off because, although they're a million times better than the Pendo and I like them so much more, the most annoying thing about Virgin is the fact that 90% of their Birmingham-Scotland services are diesel powered under the wires throughout. It's a nightmare.

[Lordmwa]

Some intersting points Dave, however i believe you are wrong. Virgin are not a dying operator and i think if they want it they will probably be able to renew the franchise.

The only reason they run to scotland with diesels is because they dont have enough electrics. Three trains an hour between london and Birmingham/Manchester is a really good service and it doesnt take that long to cover it. They clearly market themselves as a buisness travel company but actually that is because most passengers are business people.

I dont really understand what people have against pendos and voyagers. They are modern trains, fair enough they arent steam powered or loco hauled but they are really a european standard now and there isnt really anything wrong with them. They are pretty functional really

[Ameecher]

The main issue is with the claustrophobic interior but you can blame Stephenson and sons for that.

[JamieLei]

Dying rail operator my arse. They've captured the business market perfectly. Train operators could do without the leisure market but without the business market, they would all die.

Plus I never said that Chiltern isn't for business - it clearly gears itself up to be, based on grounds of cost mainly. The point I was making was that many businessmen are willing to change (even at the worst station in Britain) if it results in significant time savings to their journey.

Train companies barely make any money of the leisure pax so in terms of open-access businesses like WSMR, it was semi-doomed from the start...

[Nawdic]

They have a nice variety of trains....
This morning, there was the pioneer 67, a silver WSMR coach, a Virgin TSO and 4 Cargo-D TSO's, along with Chiltern's DVT on the rear, heading into the city.

[audigex]

The main issue is with the claustrophobic interior but you can blame Stephenson and sons for that.

Fair play for the Pendy's, but the voyagers are no worse than most of the rest of the network. Nearly all the seats are aligned with windows, for a start - no annoying pillars on 1/3 of the seats.

[61653]

...many businessmen are willing to change (even at the worst station in Britain) if it results in significant time savings to their journey...

I'm not sure about this... Why would GC reccommend changing at Brighouse for Huddersfield rather than Wakefield Kirkgate (which has similar journey times from HUD, and the same service frequency, and is at least in the right-ish direction)? Of course this is because Kirkgate IS the worst station in Britain.

[Dave]

Dying rail operator my arse.

We'll see if Virgin get the West Coast shall we, and then we can reassess.

[jvassie]

It seems Chiltern are using the WSMR stock to operate some of it's own services.

Didn't see the exact combination as I was running up platform 3 to get the Wycombe train, but at the back was a silver 67, on the 16:33 (I believe so) to Birmingham Moor St.

Least it aint sittign disused..

[Dave]

It seems Chiltern are using the WSMR stock to operate some of it's own services.

Didn't see the exact combination as I was running up platform 3 to get the Wycombe train, but at the back was a silver 67, on the 16:33 (I believe so) to Birmingham Moor St.

Least it aint sittign disused..

It was always a ruse, to hear the enthusiasts talk.

I went for an interview with Chiltern in November (I didn't get it) and basically the consensus at the time was that W&S was the brainchild of a few of the members there, who were incredbly proud of what they did, and were excited about the possibility of expanding.

There was always the grounded opinion that it was "starting to turn round". Clearly a quiet Christmas period hurt.

[Born Acorn]

Interestingly, nobody here has mentioned the fact that there were three operators on the route WSMR used all owned by DB. Arriva since August, Chiltern Railways and WSMR itself.

It's not like Wrexham has lost a direct service anyway, Virgin still runs on weekdays.

Also, I imagine sooner or later ATW will try to extend Birmingham-Aberystwyth to London again, giving Shrewsbury back a direct connection.

But it must have been an order "from the top" delivered suddenly, because the week before, WSMR became a lead sponsor for Wrexham's "Year of Culture"

[Dave]

But it must have been an order "from the top" delivered suddenly, because the week before, WSMR became a lead sponsor for Wrexham's "Year of Culture"

As I said, I spoke to some very high up Chiltern management in November who were all very positive about the future at that time. So I tend to agree.

[Chris]

DB management probably didn't see a profitable future for it, especially with the impending cuts, whereas Laing Rail would have probably stuck it out for longer - I thought it was meant to be on the verge of turning profitable.

[Nawdic]

Also, I imagine sooner or later ATW will try to extend Birmingham-Aberystwyth to London again, giving Shrewsbury back a direct connection.

I would probably assume they would be going to Waterloo again, they did it with a Waterloo-Pembroke Dock back in 2002

[Ameecher]

Also, I imagine sooner or later ATW will try to extend Birmingham-Aberystwyth to London again, giving Shrewsbury back a direct connection.

I would probably assume they would be going to Waterloo again, they did it with a Waterloo-Pembroke Dock back in 2002

But Pembroke dock is in South Wales...

[Kevo00]

Who'd take a 158 to any London station anyway, when a Pendo would still be faster?

If Shrewsbury is such a big deal, in the same time it takes to go down to London they could fit in a round trip from New Street-Shrewsbury...sometimes co-operating is better than trying to compete when you can't win.

[61653]

I would probably assume they would be going to Waterloo again, they did it with a Waterloo-Pembroke Dock back in 2002

They also ran a Waterloo-Manchester Piccadilly (via Salisbury, Bristol Parkway, Newport curve & the Marches line to Shrewsbury), which although it took ages and was on a 158, was about the only way of guaranteeing a seat for the majority of my fortnightly Hampton Court-Huddersfield slog!

[Geo Ghost]

Well, lookie what I found dumped in a siding at Doncaster today.
Hanging around old MK3 coaches and some battered up old wagons. Wonder where they've all gone. Seen some coaches on the WCML near the postal sidings, DVT in Doncaster... Anyone seen the engines?

Image010.jpg (112.97 KiB) Viewed 1477 times

Shame I didn't get a better picture with my SLR rather than my phone. But SLR was in my bag, chair was comfy and I didn't want to stand by the freezing cold doorway heh.