High Speed Two

[JamieLei]

To be honest, the advantages wouldn't be as much as everyone would make out. Eurostar would almost certainly remain as a separate route due to the complicated immigration controls, so you'd have to detrain anyway to go through to France.

Plus the predominant destination from North is London, not Heathrow Airport or Paris as people might heavily try to argue.

[JGR]

To be frank I can't say I'm terribly enthused with the current incarnation of the plan.

Having a terminus on a spur type setup with Birmingham Curzon street doesn't sound all the fantastic to me. But I suppose they need to try and avoid worsening the New Street bottleneck while still getting in to Birmingham...
In the long run (very long seeing as how things are going, if the spurs north ever do get built) it'd just end up with hypothetical through services to/from the north only going to Birmingham International, at which point you're not really serving central Birmingham anymore.

Either way by far the worst thing is that it's unlikely that a single train will run before 2027, which is a very long time when you consider that it really isn't that far, and (and ~£133million/mile is a bit steep too).

[RFT]

I had a look at the map as I saw it was running in the general area of where I live and work.

if you look at the detailed "Ladbroke" map (http://www.bit.ly/hs2codies) linked off the BBC story there's a tunnel starting near the left hand edge.The London-end portal cutting needs a building to be demolished. That's the office where I work...

[John]

No space at St Pancras for more platforms and the current ones are at almost full capacity.

Excuse the ignorance - but did "we" just spend £800 Million on a station upgrade which reached full design capacity within a few years and leaves no room for expansion?
Yes, I know the original shed can only take x platforms, but still?

Sounds rather like planning for yesterday instead of planning for the future...


Looking through the plans also raises some eyebrows - I assume a B'ham spur is cheaper then a through route.

It also looks like Euston was chosen more because it needs a refurbishment, and this scheme provides it with such - killing two birds with one stone....

[JamieLei]

It would really slow the line down though. You try running trains at 350kph through the centre of a large major city! And the West Midlands conurbation is absolutely huge. Even the Bendydildos are limited to about 75 between Wolves and Cov I believe.

[Dave]

It would really slow the line down though. You try running trains at 350kph through the centre of a large major city! And the West Midlands conurbation is absolutely huge. Even the Bendydildos are limited to about 75 between Wolves and Cov I believe.

90 max in the Coseley area, but that's genuinely about it, apart from a couple of higher speed sections between International and Cov.

[Kevo00]

I don't know if the posh Eton boy is for turning or not, but it looks like HS2 is still Tory policy! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11465786

Shame there's already a NIMBY group gathering steam in my present part of the country (even though there's plenty of room round here). They can build it past my house if they want.

Of course, like all railway policy, it remains a 'believe it when I see it' issue, although I think that if we must do this, this proposal is a good one, as it mirrors the present motorway network.

[chow_34]

This is a subject that I am quite interested in. As some one that lives in the North I think it is a grave importance that this project is started as soon as possible. A 20 minute journey saving might not sound much but it might just persuade flight users to use the train, also the new route isn't just about speed, with an all new track the operators with be able to utilise wide body European style trains which will offer a level of comfort not seen on seen North of St Pancras International.

It is true to say that the HS2 line will never in reality link up Directly with the HS1 but it will still improve our over crowded network.

The new HS2 line will also free up space for more freight movements and allow for quicker more regular local passenger services.

The route utilizes a lot of the old Midland Mainline in order to cut down on the effects on the local people. and to cut costs.

The stated £30b for the project sounds a lot but when you consider the government has given the banks £700b is puts things in perspective. A project of this magnitude will create tens of thousands of jobs and bolster the economy. You just have to look at the Chinese model of public programs which kept the Chinese economy going.

Working in the UK will be expensive, this is cramped country but alos there are a lot of nibys that will force a lot of the CPOs through the courts which I am sure will add a huge amount to the bill.

The UK is a laughing stock in Europe when it comes to rail travel. At least this government has made a commitment to improve it and not just pour ever increasing amounts of public money into airport which are already out of date as a form internal transport.

There is a web site www.hs2.org.uk where you can show your support.

Also if you are on facebook search for a group called "Yes To HS2, People in support of high speed rail to the north".

I read on the No10 web site a lot annoying comments from wealthy snobs that live south of Birmingham. And their only concern was the preservation of their view from their houses with no consideration to the benefits this project will bring to many in the North and will be the first step in UK to having a full hight speed network.

Please show your support by signing the People in favour of the proposed High Speed 2 rail project petition.

[Chris]

The route utilizes a lot of the old Midland Mainline in order to cut down on the effects on the local people. and to cut costs.

The UK is a laughing stock in Europe when it comes to rail travel. At least this government has made a commitment to improve it and not just pour ever increasing amounts of public money into airport which are already out of date as a form internal transport.

There is a web site www.hs2.org.uk where you can show your support.

Also if you are on facebook search for a group called "Yes To HS2, People in support of high speed rail to the north".

I read on the No10 web site a lot annoying comments from wealthy snobs that live south of Birmingham. And their only concern was the preservation of their view from their houses with no consideration to the benefits this project will bring to many in the North and will be the first step in UK to having a full hight speed network.

Please show your support by signing the People in favour of the proposed High Speed 2 rail project petition.
[/color]

Uses parts of the MML? I don't think it will at all, the majority of it will be new and will shadow the Chiltern Main Line.

Heathrow needs a third runway, whether you remove all of the domestic flights (of which there are few), it still needs it, and a HS linking the whole of the UK will not reduce this need. The Tories are idiots. What we need is a HS network which is integrated with Heathrow, either directly or by Heathrow Express from HS terminals in London, and a third runway.

Oh yes, lets just assume everybody living south of Birmingham were educated at Eton. In reality even Buckinghamshire is not completely full of rich snobby b*rst*rds, and some of us have to put up with going to school with them (how either Beaconsfield or Gerrard's Cross were ever in the catchment area for RGS blows my mind). However the majority of the NIMBYs are the rich snobs in Bucks - around Great Missenden where they want to build a massive viaduct, and the dear old Rothschilds at Waddesden (friends with Prince Charles), who all coincedentally seem to have voted Tory/donated to the party/can persuade David Cameron to change the route/etc. Hence a route will be chosen which is less direct.

[chow_34]

The latest idea in the pipeline is for a Crossrail Interchange at Old Oak Common where the HS2 line may terminate, this would include connections to Heathrow express and a link to St Pancras.

A read an article that was supposed to be negative that stated if HS2 was built that Birmingham international would become Heathrow's 3rd runway. I fail to see how that would be negative. With Fast comfortable connections with Birmingham international people may well choose to use that airport.

People seem to be hung up on the speed, adding a new track isn't just about speed it's about capacity, the WCML is already close to capacity even after extensive works. A new high speed track is essential on that basis alone.

If you forget about class or where you were educated, it seem to be that it is only people along the proposed route are protesting and doing a very good job of making a loud noise. They are blinded to the national importance of the project by the precious views out of their windows. Why should a few thousand people have that luxury when this development will have more of a positive effect on the nation for decades. Sounds and disturbance to views will always be kept to a minimum by using deep cuttings, tunnels and sounds shielding.

[Chris]

A read an article that was supposed to be negative that stated if HS2 was built that Birmingham international would become Heathrow's 3rd runway. I fail to see how that would be negative. With Fast comfortable connections with Birmingham international people may well choose to use that airport.

People seem to be hung up on the speed, adding a new track isn't just about speed it's about capacity, the WCML is already close to capacity even after extensive works. A new high speed track is essential on that basis alone.

If you forget about class or where you were educated, it seem to be that it is only people along the proposed route are protesting and doing a very good job of making a loud noise. They are blinded to the national importance of the project by the precious views out of their windows. Why should a few thousand people have that luxury when this development will have more of a positive effect on the nation for decades. Sounds and disturbance to views will always be kept to a minimum by using deep cuttings, tunnels and sounds shielding.

For Heathrow to be competitive as a transfer airport, it needs a third runway, not another runway 100 miles away, and Birmingham International needs a runway extension, and the new International Pier for development, and it has local traffic as well, meaning that if it was to act as Heathrow's third runway, then it would reach capacity quickly.

Yes I know - the WCML has no capacity left, with nine Virgin departures an hour.

The only reason I mentioned class, was because you wrote this:

a lot annoying comments from wealthy snobs that live south of Birmingham.

I am fully in support of building HS2 through their houses - it serves them right !

[chow_34]

Yeah wealthy snobs wasn't a very well balanced comment. I have only recently began to take a real interest in the HS2 project but what I've read so far has really annoyed me. It does just seem to be those that live in the country or small villages that are even those miles away from the proposed route, which lead me to call them wealthy snobs.

I just hope they don't delay the time scale with endless court cases and ranglings over the route. I know what these nimbys are like they would bring about a court case over a tree if it meant a delay to such projects.

[Ameecher]

It does just seem to be those that live in the country or small villages that are even those miles away from the proposed route, which lead me to call them wealthy snobs.

Everyone that lives in the countryside is a wealthy snob. Well done with your sweeping generalisations.

[audigex]

I think he worded it badly and generalised too much, but he had a point.

The objections do seem to mainly come from wealthy countryside dwellers who have no interest whatsoever in the rail network, the north, the economy in general and convenience to anyone else. It's probably fair to say that there's a lot of selfish snobbery from those people. That's not to say that everyone who complains is a snob, nor that everyone who lives in the countryside is a wealthy snob.

Why should the few ruin it for the many though, just to save a view they're priviledged enough to have and most of those who benefit from this line wouldn't have the chance of. Besides, they can use the nice new fast rail link to go the lake district, which looks far nicer than that pathetic effort they like to call "countryside" south of Manchester </lakeDistrictSnob>

[JamieLei]

Pure NIMBYism. They all want High Speed Rail, they just want it to go through someone else's back garden instead.

[chow_34]

It does just seem to be those that live in the country or small villages that are even those miles away from the proposed route, which lead me to call them wealthy snobs.

Everyone that lives in the countryside is a wealthy snob. Well done with your sweeping generalisations.

Forgive me for my bad wording. But I have read a lot of critical comments not just one or two and a lot of them do smack of snobbery. And to be honest it is damn right annoying when you consider the impact this project will have on the Nation as a whole. It will be beneficial to millions either directly or indirectly.

I have only been researching the project for a few days but I have already read many technical documents, forecasts, alternative plans and negative comments from what can only be described as nimbys.

I live in the countryside and have sweeping views of the Welsh mountains but I don't see myself as a snob nor am I wealthy. It is not though my right to have such a nice view it is a privilege.

like with the A55 that runs right across the hills that I can see, any route will be hidden as best as possible, the A55 which is a large dual carriageway is completely invisible even though it cuts a path right through the hillside.

After thinking it over, I stick to my views that the most of the nimbys are posh snobs that happen to live in the countryside and think the view they have is a right not a privilege and also that they are blinded to the national interest by selfishness.

[Chris]

We should be more like France: Here is the most logical route, if your in the way move. Done . Its not like people won't get compensated.

[Lord Aro]

We should be more like France: Here is the most logical route, if your in the way move. Done . Its not like people won't get compensated.

*Claps*

[Kevo00]

Yep, ultimately you just gotta get things built.

I live in Milton Keynes, right in the heart of the belt you mention, and lets be honest, there is miles of free space around here. They fit a whole new city in here, for goodness sake!

[chow_34]

Good to see there is support for the project. My own campaign (Yes To HS2) is slowly picking up pace and I have had some responses from high profile organisations. There needs to be more public awareness of the proposals though. If the Nimbys get there way they will force a referendum on the issue which will only delay the project further or see it cancelled all together.

I don't want to seem like a spammer or single subject poster but I am passionate that this campaign gains more ground in order to fight off the anti HS2 coalition. Please check out the links on my signature.


If you do see it as spam do let me know.