Who would like to see new class of tubes?

[Kevo00]

Don't know the stats, but don't forget that the battery loco was probably heavier than your average 1995 stock . Its not clear how much else of an engineering train remained connected, but if there were ballast wagons then ouch!

Can't work out how they can 'ban' the use of these trains, they've got to do the maintenance somehow.

[61653]

Don't know the stats, but don't forget that the battery loco was probably heavier than your average 1995 stock . Its not clear how much else of an engineering train remained connected, but if there were ballast wagons then ouch!

Can't work out how they can 'ban' the use of these trains, they've got to do the maintenance somehow.

Don't think there would be ballast wagons in a deep tube, as the tracks aren't ballasted.

[Ploes]

I'm not too sure whether the confined nature of the tunnels would cause more or less deaths due to the carriages not being able to telescope...

You would think it HAS to be worse in a confined space.
Same energy going into the crash outside and inside, the energy is dissipated more when the train can telescope. In a tunnel, no where to go so it will just crush up.
Plus fatality in a tunnel crash would be higher because of the more difficult nature of the rescue.

[John]

You would think it HAS to be worse in a confined space.
Same energy going into the crash outside and inside, the energy is dissipated more when the train can telescope. In a tunnel, no where to go so it will just crush up.
Plus fatality in a tunnel crash would be higher because of the more difficult nature of the rescue.

Trains will climb on top of each other in a crash as this is the path of least resistance - in confined space you remove this path and the trains will be forced to crumble - taking a lot of energy out the system.

If the train being hit doesn't have its wheels locked, then an amount of energy will go into shunting the train as well.

Even so, a battery lok going 35mph into a train at a station with its brakes on won't be pretty.


The train ran 4 miles in 13 minutes - which is an average speed of 18mph. Given that it had to get up to speed and slow down - i would tip the top speed was perhaps around 25mph probably reached in a tunnel somewhere.

Still well done by the LU staff to clear its path.

[Kevo00]

Don't know the stats, but don't forget that the battery loco was probably heavier than your average 1995 stock . Its not clear how much else of an engineering train remained connected, but if there were ballast wagons then ouch!

Can't work out how they can 'ban' the use of these trains, they've got to do the maintenance somehow.

Don't think there would be ballast wagons in a deep tube, as the tracks aren't ballasted.

They are on the above ground bits at the end of the lines though and they have to get the ballast there somehow, though I only suggested it could be a ballast wagon as a 'for instance'. Also, its possible that this pic could be a photoshop? http://www.flickr.com/photos/56783767@N00/72188054/

[JamieLei]

I've personally seen a ballast-train go by on the District line undergroundy-bit. I suppose since the deep-level lines are all interconnected in some way that it makes sense to run a ballast train through it.

[audigex]

"Not in service"

... no s***.

[EXTspotter]

Not even for train surfers?

[JamieLei]

I suppose otherwise the Daily Mail would report that "TRAIN SPEEDS THROUGH 15 PICADILLY LINE STATIONS WITHOUT STOPPING. BLACK MAN WITNESSED DRIVING TRAIN" or something along the lines

[Ploes]

I suppose otherwise the Daily Mail would report that "TRAIN SPEEDS THROUGH 15 PICADILLY LINE STATIONS WITHOUT STOPPING. BLACK MAN WITNESSED DRIVING TRAIN" or something along the lines

Close, but you missed the fact the train would also have been full of illegal immigrants.

[Kevo00]

They are stowing away under the ballast.

[Ploes]

Bet you the ballast was mined in eastern Europe as well.

[JamieLei]

Ps for whoever said the tube has no ballast, it certainly does outside of stations. Next time you're in a deep level tube station, peer down the tunnel - the ballast starts at the portal

[Kevo00]

Ps for whoever said the tube has no ballast, it certainly does outside of stations. Next time you're in a deep level tube station, peer down the tunnel - the ballast starts at the portal

Indeed, its just not ballasted in the stations to allow for 'one-under' incidents.

[John]

Indeed, its just not ballasted in the stations to allow for 'one-under' incidents.

Actually the pit was originally put in for drainage reasons. The additional protection it provides for 'one-unders' was an unplanned benefit.


See http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/319/7215/957

(Found while browsing wikipedia looking for the mass of an engineering train. Ah, isn't wikipedia brilliant...)

[Kevo00]

Well, I never knew that, thank you! But I'm pretty sure that nowadays they are built with suicide in mind - the wiki page that links there mentions they are officially called 'anti-suicide pits' by the LU. Also, I'm sure I read about it years ago on TubePrune or somewhere like that.

[61653]

well I stand corrected...

[supermop]

Same situation here on the subway, but the concrete trough trackbed in stations is primarily to handle all the litter etc that ends up down there, we have space under the platform and in the wall for ducking out of the way. (assume underground does too). Never seen a balast train running during track work though. Plenty of garbage trains that run throuh stations at speed in the middle of the night, which is a huge let down when you've been waiting forever out in brooklyn at 2 am and just want to go home, only to see the train you heard coming 3 stations away is a beat up old redbird hauling wagon after wagon piled high with trash...

[John]

Well, I never knew that, thank you! But I'm pretty sure that nowadays they are built with suicide in mind - the wiki page that links there mentions they are officially called 'anti-suicide pits' by the LU. Also, I'm sure I read about it years ago on TubePrune or somewhere like that.

True - but then the drainage systems may have improved so much that they never do any draining any more (ignore the flooding of the tube not long ago, that doesn't count ).

I'd like to think that the design of stations, track and trains in the UK now includes elements to maximise chances of survival in train vs human or train vs car incidents - but somehow I doubt it.

Perhaps Dave / Andel knows more?

[Dave]

Well, I never knew that, thank you! But I'm pretty sure that nowadays they are built with suicide in mind - the wiki page that links there mentions they are officially called 'anti-suicide pits' by the LU. Also, I'm sure I read about it years ago on TubePrune or somewhere like that.

True - but then the drainage systems may have improved so much that they never do any draining any more (ignore the flooding of the tube not long ago, that doesn't count ).

I'd like to think that the design of stations, track and trains in the UK now includes elements to maximise chances of survival in train vs human or train vs car incidents - but somehow I doubt it.

Perhaps Dave / Andel knows more?

Not really - stations have improved CCTV, better staffing to discourage people from doing it at stations, and the palisade fencing that's gone up no doubt helps, but if someone wants to put themselves in the path of a train there's only so much you can do I guess.

Doesn't matter what shape the train is tbh, if one hits you at speed (or even not at speed) you're in the doo doo.