Who would like to see new class of trains?

[andel]

thought you would:

http://rtranmer.fotopic.net/c1814556.html

no questions allowed.

[beeb375]

I'd rather get a peek at your reportedly enormous wilkins, but for now, this will suffice. Quite like that livery, nice and simple, does the job.

[JamieLei]

Oh I _do_ like! Can't wait to see what the Birmingham commuters think when the 150s are replaced with these!

[Ameecher]

Oh I _do_ like! Can't wait to see what the Birmingham commuters think when the 150s are replaced with these!

You get corridor connections on your ones don't you?

[Kevo00]

Oooh very nice, an operational 172 at last. That'll do nicely for the GoBLin.

[Ameecher]

Nah, it's a 172 for testing. Got whole new dodgy things like lorry transmissions under the floor.

[JamieLei]

Only 2 sets I believe have end-of-train gangways. The rest have been muddled around into 2 and 3 car sets with flat ends and no doors, or something of the like.

Plus they're hardly coupled together, unlike the 323s. The only ones I've seen coupled are the two 2-car sets with gangways! - so it won't make a difference.

A question for Dave really - I barely use the Snow Hill lines, and even then, mainly to goto Olton and Shirley.

[Ameecher]

I was talking about your 172s actually. I know which 150s you've got. Still, there are a lot of people that are sceptical about using mechanical transmissions within the industry, could take a while to iron things out putting a lot of DMU cascades in jeopardy for a bit.

[JamieLei]

Oops yeah - now I reread the post it's obvious now. I'm half asleep anyway and Plan A of an all-nighter Essay Crisis is rapidly being dismissed in favour of Plan B of handing it in half a day late.

But yep - corridor connections and 100mph top speed. Which'll be odd as there isn't actually much 100mph running for them to use, and if they reach that then they'll hardly be able to sustain it before having to stop again.

I still doubt we'll see many of them coupled together though. I'm also wondering whether they'll displace the current 170s...

[Ameecher]

Unlikely. More likely to see them spreading further afield though and replacing 170s on certain routes. You'll keep all your 170s though unless the DfT can't help but start meddling again. certainly the odd combination of 170+153 should disappear.

[Dave]

They'll be coupled together regularly in/out of Birmingham in the peaks. Probably in a 3+2 car formation, although all platforms as far as Kidderminster are 6-car, so maybe we'll find 3+3 out to play.

[JamieLei]

I didn't think there would be enough 172s to be able to couple them together, unless some of the 150s are kept. There are 72 coaches of 150, but only 69 coaches of 172. Combined with the inevitable increase in use we'll see when when new lovely stock comes in, the overcrowding is likely to remain.

I suppose that if the 172s are kept exclusively for the Snow Hill Lines, 150s may continue to work the Walsal/Rugely runs as they sometimes do.

[audigex]

Less overall carriages than the 150's they replace, and less seats per carriage. There's apparently more standing room, but to me that just means you get a bit more elbow room in your overcrowding.

As usual with the DfT, it's a step sideways. Okay it's a bit newer and nicer, but it doesn't solve the actual problem.

[Kevo00]

Surely the 172 carriages are much longer than the 150s, which suffer from being extremely short, runty trainlets? Also you really can fit in many more people when there is more standing room as seats just get in the way. I assume the LO ones will have the seats parrallel to the windows to allow more people to stand in the middle, like in the 378s. On a full loading gauge train this can make a real difference. Indeed my old PhD supervisor argued that they should have all standing carraiges on London commuter routes and charge people extra to sit! I suspect you'll be able to get at least 150 people in each 172 carraige, probably far more than a 150.

[JamieLei]

The 150s have an absolutely ridiculous seating arrangement in the West Midlands. 3+2 Airline style for almost the entire train, with about 6 2+2 bays per coach. As a result, noone fills the middle seat, because its just so awkward if the window person wants to get off and 2 people need to get up (picture on a long-distance plane when you need to go toilet - 2 people get pissed off cause they have to get into the aisle). At least it'll be (unless they're ridiculously stupid again), 2+3 bays throughout. Which will actually increase the number of people in seats compared to present (no matter what people say about the centre seat not being filled, it pretty often is on a 323).

150s = 20m
172 = 23.62m

Not that much more room, but more nonetheless

[Kevo00]

150s = 20m
172 = 23.62m

Ok I stand corrected - but the seating change will be even more valuable for Goblin passengers.

[orudge]

Is it just me who thinks the colour looks a bit nasty? The white at least just looks a bit off. Personally, I prefer the likes of the First ScotRail colours, or Virgin, or similar, a good blue or a purple or whatnot.

[andel]

Is it just me who thinks the colour looks a bit nasty? The white at least just looks a bit off. Personally, I prefer the likes of the First ScotRail colours, or Virgin, or similar, a good blue or a purple or whatnot.

Paint froth alert - throw this ned out!!

[JamieLei]

Is it just me who thinks the colour looks a bit nasty? The white at least just looks a bit off. Personally, I prefer the likes of the First ScotRail colours, or Virgin, or similar, a good blue or a purple or whatnot.

It's probably just the low light. It should be plain white, just like the tube stock.

The livery is actually very good and uniform. I fully like!

[audigex]

Surely the 172 carriages are much longer than the 150s, which suffer from being extremely short, runty trainlets? Also you really can fit in many more people when there is more standing room as seats just get in the way. I assume the LO ones will have the seats parrallel to the windows to allow more people to stand in the middle, like in the 378s. On a full loading gauge train this can make a real difference. Indeed my old PhD supervisor argued that they should have all standing carraiges on London commuter routes and charge people extra to sit! I suspect you'll be able to get at least 150 people in each 172 carraige, probably far more than a 150.

Oh I'm sure you can fit more people in, but to me that's not the issue. Why the hell aren't they building them as 3+4 car? It costs more, but that's not the point: trains should be for sitting on.

As far as I'm concerned, if you don't get a seat, there should be a 50% refund for that section of the journey. Maybe I'm just a country bumpkin who doesn't understand commuter routes, but I'm a reasonably fit and healthy 20 year old, and I find standing up for an hour on a moving train can be quite uncomfortable. If it's enough for me to notice, what about those who are a little older?

Fair enough if they build them for an expected capacity and then experience a huge amount of growth - TPE as an example? - but they already know these routes are overcrowded, and all they're doing is increasing the standing room? Way to encourage people to use public transport.

I just can't get my head around the decision making process, it really doesn't take a genius to realise we need more seats.