ECS vectors v1.1.2 (by George) 19/06/2011

[hYpe_]

Hm, doesn't seem to be solved.
I'm trying to use the wood vector in the arctic climate.
When I load the GRF it removes the food factory.
How are the cities above snow line supposed to grow without food?

[Hamilton2007]

Got some questions about chemical plants.

Does it produce Dyes even when it's not feeded with Refined Products ?

If i build a truckstation and let a truck full load Dyes, does that prevent the chemical plant from closure ?

[JFK]

Hi again!
I have come across some problems with the ECS vectors. I'm playing on a temperet map and for a long while everything is working fine! Untill, suddenly, A LOT ofthe industries simply dissapear! And the strange thing is that it's not only the ones that are unused but everyon on the map. Is this a glitch or are the ECS vectors programed to do this, I did get a notis, aproximetly, one year earlier that if one perticullar indutrie, in this case a tinning factory, did not get good servic it would go out of bussines. But when this one whent gone every other industry in this vector disapeard too!
Can this be fixed???

Well, I need 2 save games. One before it happened and one - after.

Ok, so I started a new game to get the before and after save and here they are!
Although I have a question, if you fix this is it going to work everytime I play a new game or only this game?

Thx A LOT for the help!

[George]

Hm, doesn't seem to be solved.
I'm trying to use the wood vector in the arctic climate.
When I load the GRF it removes the food factory.
How are the cities above snow line supposed to grow without food?

You need ECS agricultural vector

[George]

Got some questions about chemical plants.
Does it produce Dyes even when it's not feeded with Refined Products ?

yes, a very small amount

If i build a truckstation and let a truck full load Dyes, does that prevent the chemical plant from closure ?

It depends how effective are they. IF you get any of the list below, that is enough
1) production level is 4% or higher
2) amount of all materials waiting is 1024 or higher
3) it is younger than 5(2) years (5 for ones, existing from the beginning)
4) last one on the map

[George]

Hi again!
I have come across some problems with the ECS vectors. I'm playing on a temperet map and for a long while everything is working fine! Untill, suddenly, A LOT ofthe industries simply dissapear! And the strange thing is that it's not only the ones that are unused but everyon on the map. Is this a glitch or are the ECS vectors programed to do this, I did get a notis, aproximetly, one year earlier that if one perticullar indutrie, in this case a tinning factory, did not get good servic it would go out of bussines. But when this one whent gone every other industry in this vector disapeard too!
Can this be fixed???

Well, I need 2 save games. One before it happened and one - after.

Ok, so I started a new game to get the before and after save and here they are!
Although I have a question, if you fix this is it going to work everytime I play a new game or only this game? Thx A LOT for the help!

As you can sea on the screen shot, industries have informed you that they would close. 1 month remaining means closure next month. So, the picture looks like expected.

Things that may be important.
1) if some industry did not report the plan to close, but was closed - please point me out that industry (tell the town name, industry type and the direction)
2) tell me please, when was the game started. If in 1950 - was it a scenario? If so - which one?

[griffin71]

Hi, I have a question about the closure of industries, or rather - how to prevent them.

If i build a truckstation and let a truck full load Dyes, does that prevent the chemical plant from closure ?

It depends how effective are they. IF you get any of the list below, that is enough
1) production level is 4% or higher
2) amount of all materials waiting is 1024 or higher
3) it is younger than 5(2) years (5 for ones, existing from the beginning)
4) last one on the map

ad 1) - How do you increase the level to 4% or more? Is this documented somewhere?

ad 2) - Is that te total sum of all materials, or should there be 1024 of one specific cargo be waiting?
I have an example where over the last 5 months there has been material waiting to be processed continuously, yet it closes.

[George]

Hi, I have a question about the closure of industries, or rather - how to prevent them.

If i build a truckstation and let a truck full load Dyes, does that prevent the chemical plant from closure ?

It depends how effective are they. IF you get any of the list below, that is enough
1) production level is 4% or higher
2) amount of all materials waiting is 1024 or higher
3) it is younger than 5(2) years (5 for ones, existing from the beginning)
4) last one on the map

ad 1) - How do you increase the level to 4% or more? Is this documented somewhere?

You have to supply the industry with enough materials. For some industries it is documented at http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=ECS
For some industries there is no documentation yet, but you can help to create it.

ad 2) - Is that te total sum of all materials, or should there be 1024 of one specific cargo be waiting?

the sum

I have an example where over the last 5 months there has been material waiting to be processed continuously, yet it closes.

Some industries, like farms, forests, power plants are closed when they get into town zone. Also mines can get exhausted. If it is not your case - provide a savegame, please.

[griffin71]

(...)You have to supply the industry with enough materials. For some industries it is documented at http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=ECS
For some industries there is no documentation yet, but you can help to create it.

This cement industry (see savegame) is not yet in the list on the wiki.
How can I create the documentation if I don't know how ik works exactly?

(...)

I have an example where over the last 5 months there has been material waiting to be processed continuously, yet it closes.

Some industries, like farms, forests, power plants are closed when they get into town zone. Also mines can get exhausted. If it is not your case - provide a savegame, please.

Savegame with continuous delivery to Finwell Cement Plant. Closes by 1 jan next year, despite continuous availability of sand for the 4 months remaining until then.
Note: this savegame is based in nightly 18748 with the dist patch. This patch does not influence the industries themselves, only the distibution of what is produced to the various destinations serviced.

[George]

(...)You have to supply the industry with enough materials. For some industries it is documented at http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=ECS
For some industries there is no documentation yet, but you can help to create it.

This cement industry (see savegame) is not yet in the list on the wiki.
How can I create the documentation if I don't know how ik works exactly?

That is easy
1) You can decode the GRF with RGFCodec and see lots of comments
2) You can contact me and I'll provide you some development files

Code: Select all

ID	New name	Vector	Level	New tiles	0B	0C	0D	0E	0F	10	11	14	15	17	18	19	1A (reverced)	1B	1C	1D	1E	1F	20 20(%)
19	Cement works	Constuction	2	81	04h	4833h	4835h	4839h	128	1Ch	11h,1Eh	30	NONE	4	1	74h	00 00 00 00h	482Dh	00 00 01 00h	00 00 01 00h	00 00 01 00h	DCE5h	FFFFFFFFh	100%	

3) Also I would answer you question and fix your mistakes if you would do any while writing the wiki page
If you are ready to help me with wiki - we would find a way to make you know HOW it works exactly

(...)

I have an example where over the last 5 months there has been material waiting to be processed continuously, yet it closes.

Some industries, like farms, forests, power plants are closed when they get into town zone. Also mines can get exhausted. If it is not your case - provide a savegame, please.

Savegame with continuous delivery to Finwell Cement Plant. Closes by 1 jan next year, despite continuous availability of sand for the 4 months remaining until then.
Note: this savegame is based in nightly 18748 with the dist patch. This patch does not influence the industries themselves, only the distibution of what is produced to the various destinations serviced.

Sorry, I do not see Finwell Cement Plant in the save Where it is?

[griffin71]

typo.... Cement Works

Sould be in the centre of your screen when loading the savegame.

[George]

Sould be in the centre of your screen when loading the savegame.

Could you reproduce the problem in the clean trunk?

[griffin71]

Sould be in the centre of your screen when loading the savegame.

Could you reproduce the problem in the clean trunk?

I've tried that, and stumbled on different problems.
1. It would be very helpful to the players if the request for better service would be specified more precisely -- I discovered that sometimes, it is the transport to the industry that should improve, whereas at other times it is the transport from the industry that's insufficient;
2. The food processing plant requires good service, but that means also that it needs good transportation of food. But the FPP closed before there were any towns accepting food.
3. Now, food is also accepted by tourist centres, but they require tourists first. And so far even large cities have not produced any tourists. Why?
4. It happens that all instances of certain industries are closed. If I'm well informed, always 1 instance of each industry should remain open.

Attached is a savegame showing issues 2 and 3 based on release 0.7.5. Chinshaw Springs should have at least the size (4,811) to supply tourists.

[George]

Sould be in the centre of your screen when loading the savegame.

Could you reproduce the problem in the clean trunk?

I've tried that, and stumbled on different problems.
1. It would be very helpful to the players if the request for better service would be specified more precisely -- I discovered that sometimes, it is the transport to the industry that should improve, whereas at other times it is the transport from the industry that's insufficient;

"From" for primary industries, "to" for secondary industries

2. The food processing plant requires good service, but that means also that it needs good transportation of food. But the FPP closed before there were any towns accepting food.

wrong. Transporting FOOD does not affect FPP's service rating

3. Now, food is also accepted by tourist centres, but they require tourists first. And so far even large cities have not produced any tourists. Why?

You need ECS Houses or other set thet provides houses which generate tourists.

4. It happens that all instances of certain industries are closed. If I'm well informed, always 1 instance of each industry should remain open.

Correct, with exception - The last mine exhausted will close.

Attached is a savegame showing issues 2 and 3 based on release 0.7.5. Chinshaw Springs should have at least the size (4,811) to supply tourists.

I can't test issue 2 because the industry already informed about closure. You need to provide a savegame there remaining life is about 12 months. As for issue 3, there is no appropriate houses set loaded.

Also, there other industries sets loaded in the save, that (theoretically) can also cause problems.

[griffin71]

Ahm, let us agree on what testing set-up is appropriate first then.
I now have the following list, is that one OK?

List of NewGRFs

ECS NewGRF list.jpg (37.46 KiB) Viewed 2363 times

Furthermore, which NewGRF contains houses suited for supplying tourists and accepting food? Or is that still under development?

Edit: found ECS Houses via GRFCrawler.

[George]

Ahm, let us agree on what testing set-up is appropriate first then.
I now have the following list, is that one OK?

Yes

Furthermore, which NewGRF contains houses suited for supplying tourists and accepting food? Or is that still under development?
Edit: found ECS Houses via GRFCrawler.

Correct

[viking42]

Hi,

lready posted this question, but probably in a dead topic.
Ive openTTD, and i'm doing some mapmaking tests.

Is there any parameter or trcik in ECS to prevent any industry to close?
till now ive tried parameter 2, 4 and 8 on all ECS modules but without any success

[George]

Hi,
lready posted this question, but probably in a dead topic.
Ive openTTD, and i'm doing some mapmaking tests.
Is there any parameter or trcik in ECS to prevent any industry to close?
till now ive tried parameter 2, 4 and 8 on all ECS modules but without any success

"no closure at all" would be available only in beta 6 of ECS vectors.
Currently you can prevent only serviced factories from closure
http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php ... nformation

[griffin71]

1. It would be very helpful to the players if the request for better service would be specified more precisely -- I discovered that sometimes, it is the transport to the industry that should improve, whereas at other times it is the transport from the industry that's insufficient;

"From" for primary industries, "to" for secondary industries

(...)

Attached is a savegame showing issues 2 and 3 based on release 0.7.5. Chinshaw Springs should have at least the size (4,811) to supply tourists.

I can't test issue 2 because the industry already informed about closure. You need to provide a savegame there remaining life is about 12 months. As for issue 3, there is no appropriate houses set loaded.

Also, there other industries sets loaded in the save, that (theoretically) can also cause problems.

OK, so here's a new savegame meeting the conditions outline above.
Here again, a Cement works (Scabbot Bay) is closing, despite an apropriate deliverance of sand.

In addition I'd like to suggest the following:
1. Industries state 'Closure: no' in case there is no closure threat, or 'Closure: in nn months', in case there is.
2. Secondary industries state which cargo they need (in sensible amounts) to prevent closure. E.g. 'Minimal monthly demand: sand (250 tonnes) or lime (150 tonnes)' (arbitrary amounts used) Such a statement is very helpful for the player

[George]

OK, so here's a new savegame meeting the conditions outline above.
Here again, a Cement works (Scabbot Bay) is closing, despite an apropriate deliverance of sand.

Conditions are not met
1) parameter is 0, so standard difficulty conditions are used
2) protect if level > 04h, good service ( 9E + A0 > 1024), v40 + v41 + v42 > 1024, younger than 5(2) years
2.1) level = min (min (R1, 4 + min ( R2 , R3 + 8 )) , 128)
R1 = v40 / (9 * max (year - 1920; 5) + 20) * base1=8 / 100)
so, you do not provide enough limestone to have required level
2.2) amount of cargo transported - is not applied because this amount of cargo was not produced
2.3) amount of cargo waiting. I see about 300 in you save game, so, that is not enough
2.4) age - above 5.
so, there are no conditions to protect your industry - it will be closed.

but as soon I change parameter to 8, the industry becomes protected (2.3 applies, because 300 tons is more than 1 ton) and the industry does not close

So, I see the expected behaviour.

1. Industries state 'Closure: no' in case there is no closure threat, or 'Closure: in nn months', in case there is.

It would require one more string. I do not see much profit here. I've added it to todo list with the lowest priority.

2. Secondary industries state which cargo they need (in sensible amounts) to prevent closure. E.g. 'Minimal monthly demand: sand (250 tonnes) or lime (150 tonnes)' (arbitrary amounts used) Such a statement is very helpful for the player

I've added it to todo list with the lowest priority.