Advantages of Locomotion over OpenTTD?

[smallfly]

Hey Locomotion-Community!

As some of you may have already read, I'm currently working on a new logistics game called "P1" (see www.p1sim.org). For that purpose I'd like to know what you think are the advantages of Locomotion over OpenTTD. I only know the latter one. But I'd like to include the good features of Locomotion into P1.

I would also be glad to know what is NOT good about Locomotion. I will collect all positive and negative aspects in the corresponding forum thread. (You dont have to register there, its enough if you post here in this thread).

Thanks for now,
=smallfly=

[Illegal_Alien]

You title is too suggestive. Make it more appropriate. (looks a bit more like spam though.)

[smallfly]

It may look like spam because I startet a similar thread in the simutrans forum. But i just want to know why you prefer Locomotion over OpenTTD. What are the main advantages?

[Benny]

Only the graphical difference, the details etc.. You can see every connection in switches for example, and the signals are waymore detailed.

[smallfly]

Only the graphical difference, the details etc.. You can see every connection in switches for example, and the signals are waymore detailed.

I had a look at the locomotion switches (via youtube). They are smoother than ottd ones but in ottd you also see every connection, dont you? Does locomotion only have more detailed signals or also other signals that enable more gameplay options?

[Twiggy]

I'll have to agree with young Benny, and say the graphics are the only real achievement over OTTD...
I wouldn't say the signals enable more options, they still work the same way as in OTTD. It'd be nice to see a more realistic signalworking operation ingame (such as two opposing trains entering the same block (on different roads) being able to pass through at the same time, at a junction, for example).

[smallfly]

I'll have to agree with young Benny, and say the graphics are the only real achievement over OTTD...
I wouldn't say the signals enable more options, they still work the same way as in OTTD. It'd be nice to see a more realistic signalworking operation ingame (such as two opposing trains entering the same block (on different roads) being able to pass through at the same time, at a junction, for example).

like pathbased signals in ottd.

thanks for now. i just wanted to know if there is anything in locomotion a new game (based on ottd) should have.

[Benny]

No, you don't see every connection in OpenTTD.

In Locomotion you can have a railway track cross another one, kind of sideways, but trains can't switch between them. Like this:

Code: Select all

   \
-----\-----
       \ 

Edit: Fixed "drawing".

[smallfly]

In Locomotion you can have a railway track cross another one, kind of sideways, but trains can't switch between them.

Ah, ok, now I know what you mean. Thanks for the drawing.

[Drury]

I like subways and elevated tracks, such as stations on bridges, different water (not only texture as in TTD, it really takes some space) and it's easier to edit or add new vehicle types (monorail, maglev, flying cars...). You can also make or download highways like on your concept art.

Locomotion still isn't as good as OTTD, because OTTD have much more features and it's development still continues...

[smallfly]

Thanks for those feature-advantages.

[Illegal_Alien]

Locomotion is just a beefed op TT/TTD version with some new graphics . And as far i can compare, modding it with XML files is a lot easier then the GRF. (Proof me if i am wrong)

[smallfly]

Locomotion is just a beefed op TT/TTD version with some new graphics . And as far i can compare, modding it with XML files is a lot easier then the GRF. (Proof me if i am wrong)

I never tried to modify grfs. But as there are people helping with the grf "coding" it seems to be too dificult for standard users. Also thanks to you. (Although I already plan to use XML or any readable format for game editing/expansion instead of cryptic grfs.)

[robo]

There seem to be a lot of things going on with openttd, and I'm optimistic for its future, but normal players (like me) probably would still only play the basic version which has in common with locomotion that there are no real incentives or complexity to play with. The trains are the stars of locomotion and this is one reason why locomotion still is clearly the better model railway. The interface requires less mouseclicking, if you like working with landscape, it's a lot of easier to build tracks and you have rotable graphics.
If you would want to add more complexity for locomotion, you would need larger maps (ideal would be 2048x2048, if normal hardware can handle it) and an autorail tool as you have it in openttd to make trackbuilding easier. Towns need to be large enough to make busses and trams interesting, passengers need destinations like working places, shopping centers or schools.
Industries should have road access and towns should be already connected by roads or rivers.
I would go for a singleplayer game and computer opponents should only use trucks, ships and busses. Pathfinding could be precalculated like in industry giant 2. This game is interesting enough for studies if you want to create a more advanced economic model, too, and how it makes the information visible on the main screen without mouseclicking.
Even on large maps there's a limit what is feasible and what players can handle and there should be a (sea-)port for import/export to simulate the outside world.
The best way to find a concept is to play all these games, because you can fall in a lot of traps you probably can't imagine easily.

[smallfly]

Even on large maps there's a limit what is feasible and what players can handle and there should be a (sea-)port for import/export to simulate the outside world.

http://www.p1sim.org/tiki-index.php?pag ... t+Business

The best way to find a concept is to play all these games, because you can fall in a lot of traps you probably can't imagine easily.

I played IG2 and many other sims. But locomotion reminds me too much of RCT. Building tracks there makes me thinking to be in a theme park But I want to know what features are so good about the game. So thanks for input!

[Kevo00]

It would be good to have a track system like Loco's but with much larger scale maps. Also I agree that players shouldn't just be able to build bridges over everything, which is what can sometimes give Loco its RCT like quality - though larger scale would cure this, because only the parts that had to be elevated would be (instead of entire lines being built elevated). Path based signalling would also remove the need to build flyovers at every junction which sometimes become a complex and unrealistic looking junction. Loco railways also tend to be too short because of the small map size and suffer from a lack of capacity as a result.

[Vimpster]

I much prefer Locomotion over OTT or TTD mainly because of the added complexity of the rail networks since you can no longer make such sharp turns like you can in those other games. Also, I very much like the atmosphere of locomotion from the sound of the trains rolling over the rail and the much improved animation of vehicles when they are going around a turn. Also the ability to see the vehicles more clearly as you can zoom in further. I think the only think I like about the other games over Locomotion is the graphics. I liked the cartoonish style and the colorful graphics compared to Locomotion's pale colors.

One thing though, that I really liked about the original TT was the way the towns grew. There was a threshold system that provided the game with more purpose and complexity that for some strange reason they took out of the game with TTD. Although the threshold system as it was wasn't the most realistic but it was better then having towns grow so easily with little effort on your part to make them grow.

I think a dynamic threshold system would be great, and easily implemented into games like TTD and Locomotion. Whereby the town needs to have a certain percentage of its total production serviced adequately before it will grow and if it dosen't meet that threshold then the town just stagnates or possibly even shrinks. This sort of complexity adds more purpose to the game which I think these sort of sandbox games really require to be fun.

[Kevo00]

Also, in the original TT, and possibly TTD, towns were more realistic with a core and suburb style - the whole city didn't become commercial buildings, and suburbs could even branch out.

[smallfly]

thanks again!

It would be good to have a track system like Loco's but with much larger scale maps.

agree

Also I agree that players shouldn't just be able to build bridges over everything

agree

Also, in the original TT, and possibly TTD, towns were more realistic with a core and suburb style - the whole city didn't become commercial buildings, and suburbs could even branch out.

good point. almost forgot that. thanks for reminding me

no longer make such sharp turns like you can in those other games

agree

One thing though, that I really liked about the original TT was the way the towns grew. There was a threshold system that provided the game with more purpose and complexity that for some strange reason they took out of the game with TTD. Although the threshold system as it was wasn't the most realistic but it was better then having towns grow so easily with little effort on your part to make them grow.

agree

the town (...) stagnates or possibly even shrinks

agree

[Hammo]

One thing I remember from TT, and I really miss in locomotion is Service Subsidies. That made the game so much more interesting/challenging/fun. Also avoids the stagnation I sometimes find in my games where I stop building and just watch stuff happen before getting bored.


Very nice plan you've got going, I've wondered about making an open source locomotion-styled game for a while now, but it would take a lot of work. Most of that enthusiasm came after learning OO/classes in C++ earlier in the year. Just out of interest, how are you handling graphics? Are you thinking along the lines of a 2D sprites system like in locomotion? or something 3D? something else? Anyway, if you're after some help at some stage, let me know.