Go-Ahead retain Southern (South Central Franchise)

[JamieLei]

Well Barcelona's main airport is called "El Prat" and one of Kuala Lumpur's main transport terminals is pronounced "Tittywank-sa" so why not NedRailways

[Dave]

From the original post... "NedRailways". Ned railways? Neds are capable of running a railway?

("Ned" being a typically Scottish term for what most other people would term "chav")

Of course "ned" in trainspotter-speak refers to a "new engine desperado", or someone who likes "everything".

Like me.

[Nawdic]

I suppose the purpose for a direct airport link from the South Coast - there's A LOT of direct airport links suddenly springing up recently, with ATW now running the Mid-Wales trains through to Birmingham International.

well no one ever told me that...

Noone ever told me that either - until Ameecher just informed us. Quit whining and just read.

They want 12 cars on the london to east grinstead service.

But thatll never happen.

Will you please put more depth into your posts tommie. At the moment your reputation on the forums is at an all-time low, simply because of these annoying, non-contributing posts. The fact that your dad's a train driver is irrelevant if you just continue to murk about saying pointless twatty comments - it earns you no respect whatsoever. Zero. Nothing.

Will you care to say why? I fully believe there'll be 12 cars to East Grinsted. The 10 to Uckfield might pose more problems, but there's a good chance that'll happen too.

NR (and possibly us) would have to fork out loads of money to lengthen stations... i mean sanderstead station is only big enough for 8 cars!

[JamieLei]

I actually read the report Network Rail commissioned into 16-car trains vs double decker trains on four main routes (London to Brighton, Southampton, Oxford and Ipswich) and they concluded that although both were ridiculously expensive it would be cheaper (marginally) to lengthen the trains to 16 coaches. The main concerns with double-decker stock were (particularly on the Brighton Main line) expanding the loading gauge and the increased dwell times at stations.

The entire Thameslink route is being upgraded to 12 car platforms as we speak. Luton Airport Parkway was the first to be lengthened. Farringdon is undergoing major works and blocking off the Moorgate branch to be lengthened. Blackfriars will see platforms stretching over the River Thames. What makes you think that stations on the East Grinsted line won't be lengthened to 12-cars? - Plus it would enable 12-car sets to run through to Bedford (although I'm not sure if East Grinsted is being included in Thameslink).

[Griff]

Blackfriars will see platforms stretching over the River Thames.

Should be quite interesting to see when it's completed. The first station to actually span the River Thames (any river in fact, no?)

[JamieLei]

Birmingham Snow Hill is gaining a second entrance at its south end, part of the Council's plan to extend CBD development past the "Concrete Collar" of the Inner Ring Road.

Blackfriars will be much more accessible to the Tate Modern when completed , although I still prefer the walk across the Millenium Bridge

[JamieLei]

An update: apparently the general consensus amongst rail staff is that the Southampton Airport service will run on a loop although the direction is unconfirmed. This just makes it even more confusing...

[Ameecher]

Well there are apparently a couple of unadvertised Southern trains to Southampton that run via Eastleigh each day anyway.

[Nawdic]

(although I'm not sure if East Grinsted is being included in Thameslink).

FCC aare running EG-Bedford trains from 2010.

[JamieLei]

Ah yes indeed you're right.



Effectively, how much is going to be transferred out of Southern's hands? - or will Southern still run to Victoria from Littlehampton/East Grinstead/Eastbourne etc in addition to the Thameslink services? - I can forsee the London Bridge to East Croydon line becoming extremely congested!

[Ameecher]

(although I'm not sure if East Grinsted is being included in Thameslink).

FCC aare running EG-Bedford trains from 2010.

Well in that case they're definitely going to get 12 car platforms then.

[JamieLei]

Not all Thameslink stock will be 12-car - the specification also calls for an 8-car set

[Ameecher]

It was my understanding that there would be the potential to operate 12 cars on all routes, hence my above statement. I may be wrong though.

[Nawdic]

Most of Fcc's services will be 8-car anyway, like they are now...

What you thought was that Fcc was just ordering the new 377's to increase capacity, which is neither right nor wrong... however, it is a rarity to see 12 car services even now!

[Ameecher]

Most of Fcc's services will be 8-car anyway, like they are now...

What you thought was that Fcc was just ordering the new 377's to increase capacity, which is neither right nor wrong... however, it is a rarity to see 12 car services even now!

Don't tell me what I thought.
I was referring to the new build Thameslink stock that'll be coming on stream in 201x some time.

[JamieLei]

Tommy, your arrogance is becoming slightly annoying. Please try and be a little more polite and not assume that everyone else is ignorant - quite a bit of what you say is incorrect but I don't make a huge deal of it...

FCC physically cannot provide 12-car services because the stations aren't long enough, namely those north of the Thames. The 377s are boosting A LOT of their 4-car services to 8 cars until Thameslink kicks off with as many 12-car services as possible. 12-car runs on Southern are also actually quite common, especially among the Brighton line where they can divide (sometimes to 3 different locations). The FCC 377s will return back to Southern (FCC didn't order them, Southern did) hands to both boost services to 12-cars and also act as inner suburban stock.

PS 12-car services are common on most London operators - FCC to Cambridge as of this month, NXEA do A LOT, Southeastern, Southern, SWT and LM.

[Nawdic]

The FCC 377s will return back to Southern (FCC didn't order them, Southern did) hands to both boost services to 12-cars and also act as inner suburban stock.

Oooooo... Now that i didnt know!

Cant First afford new trains or something?

Or is it just sub-leasing?

[Ameecher]

Very rarely do TOCs actually buy their own trains. The FCC 377s are just a temporary measure to allowed an increased number of services to operate until the new build Thameslink fleet comes on line.

[JamieLei]

Very rarely do TOCs actually buy their own trains. The FCC 377s are just a temporary measure to allowed an increased number of services to operate until the new build Thameslink fleet comes on line.

Indeed. The average cost of a MU coach is £1.5million (higher for BendyDildos, slightly lower for commuter stock). Even the public sector (London Overground) lease their stock through a ROSCo (Rolling Stock Company). If you only had a franchise for 10 years, you wouldn't pump in £100 million of your own money for stock that your successor is going to build . I think LUL buy their own trains outright - or has the PPP changed this?

[Kevo00]

I seem to remember that LUL were leasing trains in the 1990s, even before it started on the national network. Not sure if that is still the situation. In reality its rare that anyone buys a big asset outright because of the finance required. Back in the old days it was easier for railway companies because they often built the trains too.