New Economic Model

[constructor]

So. My Russian TOVARISHI don't speak, so we want to present to you my assembly, which in my opinion not only solves the problem of a primitive economy, but gives a totally new view of the world;)

http://forums.ttdrussia.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2658

Also interesting is not the view of Russian-speaking visitors (if you do not get to vote)
(translation:)

Yes, (it is better then that is fine-tuning)
Yes, (it is better to develop the economy / politics / other)
Hmm .. Something in this patch is. (abstention)
No, (it is not in the spirit of the game / other)

The truth is probably necessary in order to register a vote - frankly I do not know (and this can be arranged if interested.
I've just not quite sure of the correctness giving links to a foreign forum. Principle, I can make a clone topic - but it is need it?

In a nutshell:

The logic of the patch:

You buy the goods at a factory and taken to the the one where he is needed. Income is considered to be the difference in prices for goods at the factories.

Changes:

Added to adjust the base price "configure paths-> Base prices"
Added "loaders" - put the station near the top cell industry
Added level of needs.
New terminal buildings "Station-> Control"

This is a pretty short list;)

PS Sorry for my bad English (here and in the translation patch)

[athanasios]

I am amazed with the work 'behind the curtain'! Can these be real or am I dreaming?

As long as these can be optional in game I cast my vote and fully support your work!

Plenty of suggestions and a lot of potential here. But in the proper time. For now I must say (even though I didn't play much) that with default settings provided with default vehicles and industries the game is unplayable. Of course this is not a real issue as values can be adjusted. But it is better to have more easy values by default not to discourage players. With this flexibility I suspect OTTD servers will catch fire and burn for long!

regards
athanasios

[Conditional Zenith]

I see windows binaries in the first post, but no patches. As well as being annoying for people who don't use windows or like to compile the game themselves, it violates the GPL (technically you need the whole source, but people rarely complain if the patches are provided). Basically, the patches need to be downloadable at the same location as the binary.

[TrainTraveller]

Basically, the patches need to be downloadable at the same location as the binary.

The source has to be provided if asked for, they don't have to offer it (well, okay, a "written offer" has to be made) (and it doesn't have to be "downloadable", they could send you a CD if they wanted). Of course, IANAL

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0.txt

[Conditional Zenith]

You are correct in that it doesn't have to be downloadable, but that's the easiest way.

If you want to get into technicalities though, they must firstly distribute a copy of the license (required by section 1).

And the only permission to distribute a modified binary is given in section 3, which requires distributing the source along with it, or "a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code".

Ergo, they do have to either distribute it with the binary, or provide a written offer to distribute it. It is not the responsibility of the recipient to know that they can ask for the source. If there is any confusion on this matter, I will eliminate it by asking for the source right now.

Anyway, now that we have established that they are in violation of the GPLv2 (which I assume is unintentional and caused by lack of knowledge), they can solve this the easy way by putting up the diff at the same place as the binary (which is still breaking the letter of the GPL, but following the spirit of it closely enough for most people). They could also solve this the hard way by putting the license and an offer to send the source in the binary package. But the offer must be explicitly there.

I should also point out that IANAL, but I have read the GPLv2.

[DaleStan]

The source has to be provided if asked for, they don't have to offer it (and it doesn't have to be "downloadable", they could send you a CD if they wanted).

In fact, if it's not offered for download, I MUST have the option, for at least three years, to request and receive the full source on "a medium customarily used for software interchange".

Which is to say, if you fail to offer the source for download next to the binary, you must provide it on CD upon request.

"I will email the source to you upon request" is neither necessary nor sufficient.

[constructor]

athanasios! Thank you, thank you for the good reviews!

Yes, I have about the settings in the Russian forum have said anything about me thinking about this. Perhaps I am the truth for too long played in his patch, leaving behind such preferences.

Looking at your screen, I decided to make a brief explanation - later provided on the top, the Russian Forum (screenshot).

Conditional Zenith! Oh, please forgive, I am very sorry that you can not run the patch!

About the license does not need me to gnaw, I am good! It was not malicious, I just became lazy to do proper "patch-diff" files, because it seemed to me that they do not need.
So, a little later, I put myself on a patch Russian forum. If you have any issues with the installation - write to station256@yandex.ru (I did not update the latest version of the patch).

================

So, you're all set. The reference to a patch for the assembly in the first post.

Comment loaders:
http://forums.ttdrussia.net/viewtopic.p ... 58&p=28047 # p28047

(simple translate)

Our chief of the drawings was to justify our current rates. So, the cost of loading proportional to the square of the distance from the white cells, and cells with a truck, car or other vehicle.

White box: top cell industry (it is loading / unloading)
Green boxes: optimal loading zone (the nearest neighbors)
Yellow boxes: "tolerance" zone loading (neighbors)
The orange and red: undesirable loading zones. Under certain circumstances, may be inherently unprofitable (very far from top cell).

Please note that even the most primitive construction may greatly facilitate our work, with sootvestvuyuschim falling tariffs. Of course construction is not universal (see detailed description of the menu).

[Conditional Zenith]

Well it's not my code, and I don't want to see any trouble. Thanks for posting the diff and sorry if I sounded angry, I only intended it to be a gentle reminder/nudge.

[constructor]

Yes, perhaps only slightly. I would say that this was the troubl... inaccuracy of the translation

[Sacro]

Hmm, what is this icuuc40.dll of which it speaks?

[Rubidium]

Hmm, what is this icuuc40.dll of which it speaks?

That's the name of the dynamic version of a library that "we" statically link into OpenTTD's nightlies.

[Korenn]

wow, I think this idea has great potential

but I'm wondering about some specifics. What happens when you don't have the money to buy goods at a station? Will the train stay empty at the station? or will the company go into debt.

Because the company now buys cargo, are they considered an asset and calculated into the company value? Bankruptcy requirements may have to be changed due to this mechanic

Do the prices fluctuate? Higher production leads to lower prices, lower production to higher prices, embargoes or subsidies could influence prices as well. If there is support for extra industries like in ECS, prices could also depend on stockpile of the industry.

[constructor]

Korenn and All
Buy on duty until fail. By default, the purchase of goods is only a transport arrived.

Еhere has not yet invested in the company value. Bankruptcy - the standard mechanics. With the exception - a negative balance: a increase loan to a zero balance.

Prices are fairly complicated algorithm, but the "fluctuation" for each consignment is in the hard limit. Actually, I want to consider a mechanism to allow full time away from the rigid prices (at this moment, as you can see, there are only variations around the "market price").

PS Actually, strictly speaking it is only the first steps towards a "realistic economy."
Actually I have watched and read, Wh.(also) and in this forum. So the idea - a wagon and a small truck;):
*) As a minimum, the global fluctuation of prices (economic upturn / recession).
*) Increases in the prices of miscellaneous goods - the price differential, depending on the demand / supply (needs of cities, development of the mining industry)
*) Rate of return - price / taxes change so to profit in different sectors was approximately equal (unless you carry coal aircraft).
*) Oh, I do taxes, and a further reform (NOT president-->) (<--president)

In general I will try to ensure that each sector was unique to each plant to produce its own original products (even the fish is different;)), and each transport line was atypical ( unique ).

Also, if you reach your hands, add a unique equipment, unique technologies (or, by analogy with the purchase of transport - choose the machines for the industry)

PPS Here are just a game then have to rename, because this is not the transport magnate, want - the industrial magnate or transport magnate if you want, but you want: set up on the outskirts of the city, and slowly ($$$) collect taxes:)

[SHADOW-XIII]

this looks awesome, a bit similat to Railroad Tycoon 2 (station exapnding).
as somebody notice before it has unbelievable huge potential
would love to see some more screenshots

[ever]

Do players own industries and can upgrade them by default or is it like Railroad Tycoon and they have to purchase it first?

[SHADOW-XIII]

i think it goes this way:
there is another player, autocreated at beginning calld NATION.
It owns all indutries and when you buy and sell cargo from industry he gets/pays the money

when he(he=Nation) got money the can level up(upgrade) industries to higher level (means faster/more production, bigger warehouse inside industry). each industry got own price it buy/sell cargo so you can only decide transporting based on distance but also on price for cargo.

warehouse holds some cargo, it's inside inustry and place between indutry production and player station

another feature is that station can not pickup any cargo, until a vehicles is waiting for it, or if set otherwise it can put certain amount of cargo and hold it at station (amount can be set up in game)

and another feature is stations level up/upgrading. you can buy upgrades like hotel, restauran at station and other. Those two mentioned gives more $$ from transported passengers but there are other like security (for not loosing cargo to crime - dunno how it works) or cranes (that speed up loading/unloading different cargo, without it is quite slow, with level 5 of it it's lightning fast) - of course it require maintance monthly pay, higher upgrade level, higher pay

[ever]

This thing has some great ideas such as the whole buying, re-selling thing and the fluctuations in cargo prices.

In fact, that pretty much solves the whole industrial cargo distribution problem without network modelling. Network modelling would still be required for passenger and mail services though.

The rest just seems piled on top and its quite a shame. I wonder if they even looked into using ISR graphics to represent warehouses, loading cranes, storage etc. The current implementation is non-sensical and complex for pretty much no reason at all.

[SHADOW-XIII]

the whole warehouses and cranes is just coded inside, no graphics visible for that, but it would be great idea to make it into graphics

plus since there is a player NATION that holds industries it could be easly moved into owning industryby any player - that would be even more awesome, imagine player that hold a factory and can decide how much he pays for crop and how much he sells goods for!!! Awesome idea, brings TTD into next level: not only transport

[Coxx]

Your efforts to create something towards a more "realistic" economy for the game are impressive.
What can be seen in this few screenshots ist truely amazing.
Having base prices ajustable in the advanced setings would be great for testing purposes or custom balancing.
I guess stations improvement had also been on the wish list of many players, here it seems to work.

But I´m not sure if you´re really heading into the right direction with that merchant model.
After all it´s a game about transport . When using all the options available like timetables, conditional orders, programable signals, etc. the game is allready fairly complex. It might be a little to much if you have to care about the whole economy too.

Yes, the current economic modell is all but satisfying. When you managed to repay the bond it will be fairly sandboxlike, no matter what options or multipliers you might use. Nevertheless with difficult settings the begining could be difficult, you get busted easily and this is no fun either. I´m not sure if buying/selling of cargos with changing prices really helps here.

In my opinion the one price which should really vary is the one for transport. When speaking of RR Tycoon, it had a clever modell to simulate this, reducing the margins after a while thus forcing your to trim your transport network more efficient.
As a basic outline I think the payment for transport should reduce over time the more regular a run becomes (till a basic amount). Some things might also have an influence on the price. Like being the only one who provides a service, being the fastest, the most regular, using new equipment, delivering many different types of goods to a city (allmost like the station rating). There should be a bonus when you provide a steady supply of raw materials to an industrie for a certain amount of time, that it never have to stop production.
It might still be affected by general economic changes anyway.
Well, just some thoughs about it.

Since it might help you genaerating more cargo to transport investing in industries is absolutly fine. If you get a small benefit if the industry performs well (due your exellent service) who wants to complain about that.

[Zhall]

Very interesting...